# Freemen on the land **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 5, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164 "2012-06-05T15:51:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/21 "2012-06-07T00:07:56Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > We prefer that people not use the SDMB to recruit others for board wars against other websites. Please don’t advocate such actions. > > **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator I’m sorry. Please could you link me to the “laws” of this message board please? The thing is I wouldn’t have thought of this as a “board war” because youtube is not a message board and I would not advocate a “war” against youtube as that would be the kind of think you’d have to be as insane as a freeman to do! Clearly: [ol][li]No one would listen to me here[_]If they did, what could they do “against youtube”[_]and if they could do something “against youtube” - no offense but youtube is a lot bigger than this website![/li] [/ol] I was just suggesting arguing with this guy cause it’s funny to do - not as way of “scoring points” or anything 🙂 **I also want to clarify I am not arguing with you** - I would just like to see the laws so I can not break them again. Anway - sorry once again ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/22 "2012-06-07T00:53:55Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > I’m sorry. > > Please could you link me to the “laws” of this message board please? Here: [FAQs - Please Read First - Rules, Guidelines, Etiquette, Technical Issues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=562482) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/23 "2012-06-07T01:51:05Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > Please could you link me to the “laws” of this message board please? Should be pretty straight forward. Posting a “hey, here’s a cool video on YouTube” link = OK. Posting a “hey, here’s a good fight on the YouTube boards” = NOT OK. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/24 "2012-06-07T01:54:02Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > Or even more incredibly, [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV4DifdBGe8)’s one where they STORM A COURT and “arrest” a Brit judge. Jeez, they have these morons in Britain **too?!** ---
**Author:** ![groovyluv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5ac83/32.png) [@groovyluv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groovyluv)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/25 "2012-10-01T14:45:04Z")
For those that are as shocked and amazed that some people think this could even begin to work, here is a link to a decent summary of a recent Canadian decision. The judgment itself is directly linked in the summary (and is worth reading for the comprehensive, clear and no-nonsence without ridicule approach, even if it is very long). Even though it is a Canadian law result, I am sure that lawyers and judges worldwide (or at least common law jurisdictions) will find this interesting. I did. > **[Freemen on the Land are "parasites" peddling "pseudolegal nonsense": Canadian...](https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2012/09/30/freemen-of-the-land-are-parasites-peddling-pseudolegal-nonsense-canadian-judge-fights-back/)** > > Meads v. Meads, 2012 ABQB 571 (Canadian) – read judgment / PDF Almost a year ago, I and some other legal bloggers wrote about a phenomenon known as the Freemen on the Land movement. I called the post Freemen of the dangerous nonsense, for that is... ps. I have no affiliations to the ukhumanrightsblog or in fact any institution named or referenced in either the article or judgment. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/26 "2012-10-01T15:33:10Z")
Thanks for that update, groovy. Interesting stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/27 "2012-10-02T00:54:38Z")
Direct link to the PDF groovy’s talking about: [http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.pdf](http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.pdf) I’m slogging through it, slowly ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/28 "2012-10-02T01:30:10Z")
I’ve been reading it in my spare time all day. If you can cut through the caselaw citations (which are necessary in any court decision), it’s a comprehensive survey of all the arguments, magic words, documents, “gurus,” capital letters and weird punctuation, etc. etc. etc., and why they don’t work. Stick with it–it’s a tough slog in spots; but overall, well worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/29 "2012-10-02T04:32:51Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I’ve been reading it in my spare time all day. If you can cut through the caselaw citations (which are necessary in any court decision), it’s a comprehensive survey of all the arguments, magic words, documents, “gurus,” capital letters and weird punctuation, etc. etc. etc., and why they don’t work. I think “magic words” really categorizes it, nicely—it’s like chronicling a system of magic, or obsessive study of religious laws and mythos. Only instead of an undercurrent of art or fable, it has politics and economics. _Fhtagn_. Really a fascinating insight into an alien worldview, and the kind of minds that could create it. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/30 "2012-10-02T05:13:36Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Really a fascinating insight into an alien worldview, and the kind of minds that could create it. It is, and as an Alberta lawyer (which is where this case is from), I can tell you that it is fascinating. I have read “Freemen” decisions before, but this is perhaps the most comprehensive–and the most damning to their positions. I’m up to “fee schedules,” unilateral contracts, and _Felthouse v. Bindley_. Fascinating reading, and a good review of contract law! ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/31 "2012-10-02T07:58:11Z")
Can anyone explain the “magic hat” mentioned in the document? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/32 "2012-10-02T09:24:19Z")
From paragraphs 302-304; [QUOTE=Justice Rooke] Another branch of the immunity category flows from an argument that a person has some status or has undertaken certain steps that renders the OPCA litigant immune to court action. I have given this category the name ‘magic hats’ to capture the manner in which OPCA gurus and litigants approach these arguments. They freely wear, remove, and switch ‘magic hats’ as need be. Many OPCA schemes are a combination, or succession, of ‘magic hats’." The manner in which ‘magic hat’ schemes are presented is sometimes entirely arbitrary; a litigant only need say “I am a sovereign man”, or “I am a Freeman-on-the-Land”, and then are allegedly rendered immune to state and court action, all without any other further effort, explanation, or rationale. Some litigants go further: Gravlin et al. v. Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce et al, 2005 BCSC 839 at para. 24, 140 A.C.W.S. (3d) 447 reports a litigant who filed an “Affidavit of Non-Participation in Commercial Activity” that announced “I am immune from the Jurisdiction of any Court in Canada.” Sometimes a ‘magic hat’ is accompanied by a theoretical context to explain the operation of the ‘magic hat’. Mr. Meads, for example, explained his immunity to state and court action via his choice to be subject to “God’s law”, the “Maximus of Law”, which applies to him as he is a “living flesh and blood sentient-man”. [/QUOTE] Basically, as the justice uses the term, a “magic hat” is some claimed status that renders the litigant exempt from his legal obligations. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/33 "2012-10-02T13:31:03Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Wouldn’t it be awesome if we discovered FTL and habitable worlds, or a stargate program, and could dump all of these people on the same world and then seal them off for 100 years just to see what kind of Society resulted. Freeman: Through the Wormhole. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/34 "2012-10-02T13:42:25Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Freeman: Through the Wormhole. Isn’t that the pitch for Half-Life 3? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/35 "2012-10-02T13:53:13Z")
We can send them to the same planet I’m sending people who talk on the phone while driving, god-botherers of all flavors and people who get to the front of the line and still don’t know what they want. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/36 "2012-10-02T13:58:21Z")
The last link in the OP is no longer valid. The user has closed his account. I did see a couple of the comments last night. (I wasn’t going to watch the crazy or read everything). I remember the poster saying something like, ‘You can’t just make a “law” and make people follow them.’ Um… Actually, you can. That’s why they’re called ‘laws’ and not ‘suggestions’. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/37 "2012-10-02T15:16:09Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I’m sorry. > > Please could you link me to the “laws” of this message board please? > > **I also want to clarify I am not arguing with you** - I would just like to see the laws so I can not break them again. > > Anway - sorry once again It would have been cooler if you’d declared yourself a Freeman on the InterTubes and stated that you didn’t have to follow her silly laws. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/38 "2012-10-02T15:38:13Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Can anyone explain the “magic hat” mentioned in the document? [Magic Hat’s Oktoberfest Variety Pack](http://www.magichat.net/) is all kinds of awesome this year. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/39 "2012-10-02T18:18:18Z")
All I can think of when I read about the “magic words” is [Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuGIgf-ICHM) (youtube link). ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164/40 "2012-10-02T20:05:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The last link in the OP is no longer valid. The user has closed his account. > > I did see a couple of the comments last night. (I wasn’t going to watch the crazy or read everything). I remember the poster saying something like, ‘You can’t just make a “law” and make people follow them.’ Um… Actually, you can. That’s why they’re called ‘laws’ and not ‘suggestions’. You can start watch it [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_QAoDNf0_s&feature=related) (part 1) - it’s great! I would imagine that American police would have the tazers out by 2:45… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freemen-on-the-land/624164.md?page=3)