# Freezing a human body **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 6, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069 "2012-11-06T13:27:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/1 "2012-11-06T13:27:06Z")
As always, these questions begin with a little game of “How would you commit the perfect murder?” My husband’s (way too convoluted) method involves a freezer, but I know he’s wrong about his estimate of how long it would take to freeze a human body solid. So… Assume that we’re dealing with a 180 pound human adult. My big freezer is set to remain at 0 Farenheit - it varies a degree or two in each direction. It’s 19.7 cubic feet. (That’s an 82 kilogram person, -18 degrees Celsius, and .558 cubic meters, for you metric-minded folks. I can at least do that much math!) Assuming that the body was placed into the freezer very soon after the death (heck, maybe the person was still only mostly dead when he went in!), how long until he’s frozen solid? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/2 "2012-11-06T13:37:21Z")
Not sure on the times (the same as any other big slab of meat, most likely) but it’s the same method used by [Richard “Iceman” Kuklinski](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kuklinski#Gambinos_and_Roy_DeMeo), to confuse the coroner as to the time of death, although he used an industrial freezer. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/3 "2012-11-06T16:12:16Z")
I’d go with a large kiln instead of the freezer. They commonly go up to 2000F, which is plenty for cremation, and you could keep some pottery on hand to explain away your hobby. I’m betting you could cremate a body faster than freezing it solid at home. Plus the freezer only leaves you with \*frozen \*evidence. I’d watch that Mythbusters. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/4 "2012-11-06T18:59:04Z")
Yeah, well the freezing time is only the first hole I could punch in his plan for the “perfect” crime. He has some weird idea that a human body would freeze solid in an hour or so. Hell, the beef roast I bought last week didn’t freeze solid that fast! ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/5 "2012-11-07T14:44:55Z")
Well, I have seen one cite that suggests that it would take 3 days for a sheep carcass to freeze at -15[sup]o[/sup] in the pre-blast freezer days - I would guess a body in an empty chest freezer would be pretty similar. If you could pack it round with frozen food it would be quicker, but not to hours. Damn, we just got rid of the empty chest freezer from our garage - I could have tested the theory. With **water**. 86 liters of water. What do you people think I am? Si ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/6 "2012-11-07T14:48:44Z")
Where’s that freezer? Need answer fast! 😃 And thanks: I’ll look up meat packing data: that makes perfect sense! ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/7 "2012-11-07T15:05:11Z")
Your husband’s cunning plan is already working. While you’re asking this, and googling meat packing info, he’s out at the pub being a loudmouth and establishing an alibi. Later this week when your Brother/neighbor/friend or whoever shows up dead in a hotel walk-in, guess who’s taking the fall? Muwahahahaaa!!! ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/8 "2012-11-07T15:34:43Z")
Ah, but I have the perfect alibi: No freezer. Unless someone connects that old one of **si** ’s to me… Besides, my perfect scenario involves alligators. Or hogs. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/9 "2012-11-07T15:59:14Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > Besides, my perfect scenario involves alligators. Or hogs. Or hogs riding alligators? ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/10 "2012-11-07T16:05:00Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Or hogs riding alligators? You’re on to me. Now I need another freezer. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/11 "2012-11-07T16:11:15Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > You’re on to me. Now I need another freezer. Better make it industrial both in capacity and in cooling ability. I’m a great big ol’ furnace. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/12 "2012-11-07T18:14:28Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > Ah, but I have the perfect alibi: No freezer. > > Unless someone connects that old one of **si** ’s to me… > > Besides, my perfect scenario involves alligators. Or hogs. Too late, copycat. > **[Robert Pickton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pickton)** > > Robert William Pickton (October 24, 1949 – May 31, 2024), also known as the Pig Farmer Killer or the Butcher, was a Canadian serial killer and pig farmer. After dropping out of school, he left a butcher's apprenticeship to begin working full-time at his family's pig farm, and inherited it in the early 1990s. > Between 1995 and 2001, Pickton is believed to have murdered at least 26 women, many of them prostitutes from Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. Pickton would confess to 49 murders to an underc... But, they caught him from DNA inside undigested teeth. Just required hiring a bunch of archaeology students to sift through huge mounds of pig manure… ☹ I agree with the OP. Off the top of my head, it could take a day or two for a body to freeze all the way through. For the experimenters, use jello instead. It eliminates the convection which could distort results… ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/13 "2012-11-07T18:44:48Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > Yeah, well the freezing time is only the first hole I could punch in his plan for the “perfect” crime. He has some weird idea that a human body would freeze solid in an hour or so. Hell, the beef roast I bought last week didn’t freeze solid that fast! 1/4 lb. hamburger patties don’t freeze solid in an hour, and I run my upright freezer at sub-zero temperatures. Also, who in the world has a big enough freezer at home? If you’re transporting the body to a commercial freezer, chances of detection go up quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/14 "2012-11-07T19:54:42Z")
I think it was an old episode of _Quincy_, where somebody tried this method. The process of freezing CHANGES the cell structure. So even if you let your evidence thaw, it will be apparent that the corpse was frozen at one point. Plus a body stuffed into a freezer will freeze at a different rate than one sitting outside in Permafrost, Minnesota, in the dead (ha ha) of winter. The innards will take MUCH longer to freeze, so there will be different decomp rates throughout the body. In the\* Quincy\* episode, the perpetrator also had thawed and refrozen veggies which were considered evidence. Forensic pathology is a pretty damned exacting science. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/15 "2012-11-07T20:10:50Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > I think it was an old episode of _Quincy_, where somebody tried this method. > > The process of freezing CHANGES the cell structure. So even if you let your evidence thaw, it will be apparent that the corpse was frozen at one point. Plus a body stuffed into a freezer will freeze at a different rate than one sitting outside in Permafrost, Minnesota, in the dead (ha ha) of winter. The innards will take MUCH longer to freeze, so there will be different decomp rates throughout the body. > > In the\* Quincy\* episode, the perpetrator also had thawed and refrozen veggies which were considered evidence. > > Forensic pathology is a pretty damned exacting science. > ~VOW Hey, I didn’t say it was _my_ “perfect plan!” (And there are a few steps beyond the freezer in Tony’s. Like I said, it’s pretty convoluted.) As for tracing DNA through leftover teeth, not everyone who needs killing is blessed with lots of those… And who’s gonna go looking for gator scat\* to find evidence? \*Obligatory “band name!” ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/16 "2012-11-07T20:12:11Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > Forensic pathology is a pretty damned exacting science. Especially when accompanied by a swing band. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/17 "2012-11-07T21:46:22Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > Also, who in the world has a big enough freezer at home? I have to think residential freezers are pretty common. I have one in the garage so that I can buy up produce and meats when they are on sale and then keep them for the good weather. It’s the size of a normal refrigerator, but is only a freezer. You could easily put a person in there if you took out the shelves. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/18 "2012-11-08T05:22:35Z")
(studying upright freezer) That could work if the shelves and contents came out, but it would take a lot of muscle to stuff someone in there and keep them there long enough to get the door shut. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/19 "2012-11-08T05:33:31Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > (studying upright freezer) That could work if the shelves and contents came out, but it would take a lot of muscle to stuff someone in there and keep them there long enough to get the door shut. Only murder slender people. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069/20 "2012-11-08T06:00:04Z")
If you happen to receive a frozen body in a piano crate, it will take a couple of days for it to thaw. Just trust me on this one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freezing-a-human-body/640069.md?page=2)