# French Grammar Question: des vs. les **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 6, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140 "2015-09-06T02:45:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/1 "2015-09-06T02:45:18Z")
What is the difference between the usage of “des” and “les”. All examples seem to be using “des” and “les” for “some”. Is one usage more abstract than the other. Most grammar books and websites tell learners to use “des” for specific countable things and “les” for general uncountable things. I look forward to your feedback. davidmich Découvrez des livres proches des vos goûts Découvrez des livres, sites Internet, articles relatifs aux campagnes électorales… but Découvrez les livres. Découvrez toutes les photos Découvrez les livres de la série « Chair de poule » JEUNESSE Découvrez les livres actuellement en vente sur le site autour de chez vous, dans votre établissement scolaire, dans toutes les matières. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/2 "2015-09-06T03:13:49Z")
Isn’t _des_ always ‘some’ or ‘of the’, while _les_ means ‘the’ (plural)? Indefinite and definite articles. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/3 "2015-09-06T03:23:06Z")
Yes I thought so. But maybe that answer isn’t so precise. I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/4 "2015-09-06T06:10:30Z")
Hmm. I’m not brilliant at French and I probably shouldn’t answer but I _think_ I know this one. You can think of it as general vs. specific. _Des livres_ in your first two examples used to mean “Discover some books,” either those that suit your taste – the speaker doesn’t know what your taste is, it will vary, it’s not a _set_ group of books, and I’m guessing in context it’s generic text for searching? – or some books about election campaigns. From your perspective, the books haven’t been identified yet, and it’s also likely part of an ever-changing list. In your three _Les livres_ examples, the first is too brief for me to figure out the context. But the second two are referring to a) books in the _Goosebumps_ series (which is very specific), or b) books that you have at home or maybe are already at your school that are also on sale at… some store? A school? I might be mistranslating that but is this a place that buys back textbooks? So _you_ know what books you’re looking to sell, presumably. Anyway the point is, in both the “les” examples, we’re talking about the books or group of books that you already know about or that the writer has already described/listed to you. It’s a bit nebulous but French is quite a nuanced language. A better French speaker will hopefully make more sense. My French is best used for understanding/translating opera librettos or song lyrics, since that’s mainly what I used it for waaay back when. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/5 "2015-09-06T06:28:09Z")
Yes Choie. I believe you nailed it. Thank you. davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/6 "2015-09-06T08:02:49Z")
Yes, Choie and Chefguy have it. “Des” is more general and “undefined”, while “les” is specific. The equivalence with “some” and “(plural) the” is correct, although I’d say you can also use “des” where in English you’d just omit the article altogether. So : “Discover books, websites and news articles about the electoral campaign” is a des, but “Discover all the books in this series” is a les 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/7 "2015-09-06T08:13:47Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Découvrez des livres proches des vos goûts Nitpick: Shouldn’t this be " … de vos goûts" ? ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/8 "2015-09-06T08:34:45Z")
> **[Tous les livres de A. L. Jackson](https://booknode.com/auteur/a-l-jackson/livres)** > > Découvrez la bibliographie de A. L. Jackson Découvrez des livres proches des vos goûts ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/9 "2015-09-06T09:46:08Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > [http://booknode.com/auteur/a-l-jackson/livres](http://booknode.com/auteur/a-l-jackson/livres) > > Découvrez des livres proches des vos goûts Oops. That must be a mistake - should be “de vos goûts”. In the original example, the distinction is between (implicitly) some or a general concept of X and (implicitly)any or potentially all that might be available, so Find (some) books you might like Find (some) books, websites, articles about the electoral campaigns Find (any) books. Find all the photos. Find (any) books in the series… Find (any) books currently on sale on the site, near you, in your school, in all subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/10 "2015-09-06T10:02:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Article partitif > En grammaire, un article partitif est une sous-catégorie de déterminant indéfini, plus proche de l’article indéfini singulier, employée devant les noms exprimant une quantité massive (les linguistes parlent également de notion continue), c’est-à-dire une partie d’un référent (l’objet dont on parle), ne pouvant être comptée. > > Tout comme l’article indéfini, l’article partitif participe à l’actualisation du nom noyau en indiquant simplement que le représenté (le référent) existe bien, mais demeure inconnu des actants de l’énonciation. Ainsi, il s’oppose lui aussi à l’article défini. > **[Article partitif](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_partitif)** > > En grammaire, un article partitif est une sous-catégorie de déterminant indéfini, plus proche de l'article indéfini singulier, employée devant les noms exprimant une quantité massive (les linguistes parlent également de notion continue), c'est-à-dire une partie d'un référent (l'objet dont on parle), ne pouvant être comptée. > Tout comme l'article indéfini, l'article partitif participe à l'actualisation du nom noyau en indiquant simplement que le représenté (le référent) existe bien, mais demeure ... ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/11 "2015-09-06T12:03:28Z")
Instead of either _de vos goûts_ or _des vos goûts_, perhaps _dès vos goûts_ was intended. (I’ve not been to France for 30 years ☹ and my French is _very_ rusty.) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-des-vs-les/730140/12 "2015-09-06T13:34:23Z")
Nah, it’s 100% a typo. Dès is “as soon as”, so it wouldn’t make sense there (“find books close to as soon as your tastes” ? 🙂 )