# French Grammar Question: When does a pronoun succeed a verb? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 24, 2015, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415 "2015-11-24T08:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/1 "2015-11-24T08:16:34Z")
Hi In my reading of French recipes recently I came across a series of basic steps in making a salad and then discovered the sentence ending in “…éplucher les.(…peel them)” I wasn’t aware that pronouns can succeed verbs in French. I thought they only precede them. Apparently they can succeed them as well. When do pronouns succeed verbs in French? Is it in as in my example, a series of steps and then as in English “…and peel them”. I couldn’t find a rule online. I look forward to your feedback. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/2 "2015-11-24T08:42:16Z")
Well, in that case it’s when the pronoun is the direct object; it could also happen for an indirect object. A pronoun always substitutes either a nominal group (such as the subject of a sentence) or a prepositional one (such as an indirect object). You can say “éplucher les tomates”, or you can say “éplucher les”. You can “donne les pommes à ton père” or you can “donne-lui les”. There are other constructions with the same meaning that will shuffle a pronoun to the front and/or ellide one; they’re alternate versions, not exclusive ones. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/3 "2015-11-24T11:39:14Z")
Thanks Nava. Very helpful indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/4 "2015-11-24T14:52:55Z")
The word _les_ can be an article or a pronoun. In the construct “éplucher les tomates”, it’s an article and the object is _tomates_, of course. In the imperative, second person plural: “épluchez-les !” , _les_ is a pronoun representing the object. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/5 "2015-11-24T16:45:11Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] You can say “éplucher les tomates”, or you can say “éplucher les”. You can “donne les pommes à ton père” or you can “donne-lui les” [/QUOTE] Actually, in the second example it should be “donne-les-lui”. Don’t ask me why, it’s just the way it works : “Prête-moi le machin, prête-le-moi !” Otherwise the gist is correct : to avoid repetitions (which we French try to avoid at all costs) you can omit a noun already present in the previous sentence as long as it doesn’t cause confusion, by basically turning a pronoun into a noun. In which case context makes it clear what the pronoun refers to. In the first example, “épluchez les” would be understood as “épluchez les [tomates dont je viens de parler]” It’s not necessarily after the verb although that is the normal case. It’s quite common in instruction lists (recipes, how-tos etc…) to go “1) rincer la salade. 2) la couper en lamelles.” or something like that, however (i.e. when you’re using the passive form). ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/6 "2015-11-25T18:22:58Z")
I shouldn’t do this since my French is pretty watery, but my impression is that an object pronoun precedes the verb when the sentence has a subject. With imperatives or infinitives (AFAIK, infinitives can function as imperatives), the object pronoun follows. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/7 "2015-11-26T09:39:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Actually, in the second example it should be “donne-les-lui”. Don’t ask me why, it’s just the way it works : “Prête-moi le machin, prête-le-moi” Merci, I wasn’t sure which would be the more usual one. Stupid coin fell on the wrong side. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/8 "2015-11-26T12:07:51Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > “Prête-moi le machin, prête-le-moi !” _Le machin_. I didn’t learn this word in high school French; I learned it from a North African girlfriend. When I used it with my French colleagues they were quite amused. “_Le truc_” was their preferred term. (But that was long long ago. The sensuous girl who called everything _machin_ probably has several grandkids by now. :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/9 "2015-11-26T16:48:10Z")
My wife thinks that you prepose object pronouns unless the sentence starts with the verb. She gives as an example: “Ne me la dites pas”. ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/10 "2015-11-27T01:32:35Z")
There’s a fixed order for placing object pronouns in French: - Reflexive pronouns (me, te, etc.) - Direct objects (le, la, les) - Indirect objects (lui, leur) - The pronoun _y_ (à + something, a place, etc.) - The pronoun \*en \*(de + something, a quantity, etc.) There’s a slightly different order for imperative sentences (and another slight difference according to polarity), but that’s the basic idea. There are probably a few exceptions, too, because it’s French. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question-when-does-a-pronoun-succeed-a-verb/738415/11 "2015-11-27T02:21:07Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > _Le machin_. I didn’t learn this word in high school French; I learned it from a North African girlfriend. When I used it with my French colleagues they were quite amused. “_Le truc_” was their preferred term. > > (But that was long long ago. The sensuous girl who called everything _machin_ probably has several grandkids by now. :smack: ) Heh, that’s one semantic field where I feel French beats English hands down. We have just about a million words for “unidentified/undefined/unimportant thing”. Machin, truc, bidule, chose, machin-chouette, trucmuche, bazar, bastringue, bitonio, fourbi, schmilblick, zinzin, zigouigoui, camelote… each referring to its own defined space of undefined, if you follow my meaning :).