# French grammar question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 31, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191 "2018-05-31T13:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/1 "2018-05-31T13:37:43Z")
Hi Wherever I look, French people always talk about drinking “une tasse de thé”, never “une tasse du thé”. Yet all grammar books in English (I couldn’t find any helpful explanation in French) tell you that when you’re being served a cup of tee or coffee it is correct to use “du thé”. Which is correct?. I hope some native speakers can weight in on this point. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/2 "2018-05-31T13:39:01Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > > Wherever I look, French people always talk about drinking “une tasse de thé”, never “une tasse du thé”. Yet all grammar books in English (I couldn’t find any helpful explanation in French) tell you that when you’re being served a cup of tee or coffee it is correct to use “du thé”. Which is correct?. I hope some native speakers can weight in on this point. > **[Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](https://www.yahoo.com/)** > > Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo! ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/3 "2018-05-31T13:49:14Z")
I’m not a French speaker (but I am Canadian :)) but “une tasse du thé” would literally translate as “a cup of the tea”. “Une tasse de thé” is the correct translation of “a cup of tea” as it does not include the definite article le. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/4 "2018-05-31T14:01:30Z")
_Du_ can have two separate meanings: Meaning (a): “of the” (with a masculine object) the front wheel of the bicycle -\> _la roue avant du vélo_ or _la roue avant de la bicyclette_ Meaning (b): “some” or “an undetermined amount of” (an uncountable object) she served me some tea -\> _elle m’a servi du thé_ the victim lost some blood -\> _la victime a perdu du sang_ If the amount is determined, you normally use “de” he served me a cup of coffee -\> _il m’a servi une tasse de café_ But in some circumstances, you can end up reverting to meaning (a), just like in English he served me a cup of the wine he made in his garage -\> _il m’a servi une coupe du vin qu’il a fait dans son garage_ ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/5 "2018-05-31T14:01:42Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > I’m not a French speaker (but I am Canadian :)) but “une tasse du thé” would literally translate as “a cup of the tea”. “Une tasse de thé” is the correct translation of “a cup of tea” as it does not include the definite article le. You are correct. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/6 "2018-05-31T14:21:52Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > I’m not a French speaker (but I am Canadian :)) but “une tasse du thé” would literally translate as “a cup of the tea”. As shown in **Heracles** ’ post, doing a word-for-word translation is rife with pitfalls. Usage of the article in French is not exactly the same as English. The books mentioned by **davidmich** are correct \*if \*you mean “some tea.” ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/7 "2018-05-31T15:48:02Z")
Thirded. “Une tasse DU thé” would refer to the very specific kind of tea that is now on the table. I really don’t think I’ve ever said this in my life as it’s both extremely specific and painfully obvious in a real-life situation. I cannot even imagine a context in which you’d say this. “Une tasse DE thé” is more general and, de facto, the expression we’ll use in 99.999% of real-life situations. However, “Je vais prendre DU thé” (unspecified quantity) is the only correct structure. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/8 "2018-05-31T20:53:23Z")
As I understand it, “Voulez-vous **du** thé?” would be correct, as would “Voulez-vous une tasse **de** thé?”. “Would you like **some** tea?” versus “Would you like a cup **of** tea?” ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/9 "2018-06-01T10:54:39Z")
Indeed, both of your sentences are correct. Back to the OP, I’ve just thought of an exception. As I said, “une tasse DE thé” is correct in the overwhelming majority of cases. But (this is French after all) if your friend Julien brings some tea to a place where there is already another variety of tea, you’ll definitely say “Je vais boire une tasse DU thé que Julien a apporté” because here, you’re talking about a specific kind of tea : the one that Julien brought, as opposed to the one that was already there. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/10 "2018-06-01T13:29:20Z")
And when ordering, it would be correct to say “Du thé, s’il vous plaît,” correct? (Assuming you’re not in a high-falutin’ place with 20 different varieties of tea). ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/11 "2018-06-01T13:34:49Z")
Unless it’s a very formal dinner, in which case this verbless sentence may be considered a bit abrupt, that’s perfectly ok. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/12 "2018-06-02T03:07:38Z")
In French, expressions of quantity, as they’re called, rarely take anything but _de_. So, it’s une tasse _de_ thé, but also un peu _de_ thé, un litre _de_ thé, deux livres _de_ thé, beaucoup _de_ thé, trop _de_ thé, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/13 "2018-06-02T03:22:21Z")
But if using the nakedly-informal “Du thé” all by itself, it’s different. It’s the French equivalent of an English person just saying the single word “Tea” (in a context like a restaurant order for example). ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/14 "2018-06-02T07:40:25Z")
[je bois] du thé is partitive. Compare : je ne veux pas de thé / je voudrais un peu de thé ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/15 "2018-06-02T13:25:47Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > [je bois] du thé is partitive. Compare : je ne veux pas de thé / je voudrais un peu de thé I’m highly dubious of the following example, but I did find it online and made a note of it. I just wanted to put the matter to rest. If the following is incorrect, as I suspect it is, how would a French customer ask a waiter to remove the old cup of tea on his table as he is about to order fresh tea? une tasse du thé=a served cup of tee une tasse de thé…a cup with tea in it (in other words, not served) ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/16 "2018-06-02T18:09:05Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > I’m highly dubious of the following example, but I did find it online and made a note of it. I just wanted to put the matter to rest. If the following is incorrect, as I suspect it is, **how would a French customer ask a waiter to remove the old cup of tea on his table as he is about to order fresh tea?** _Pourriez-vous enlever cette tasse de thé, s’il vous plaît ?_ > [@davidmich](#): > > une tasse du thé=a served cup of tee > une tasse de thé…a cup with tea in it (in other words, not served) In my opinion, the distinction is irrelevant : _Une tasse du thé_ is incorrect, plain and simple, except perhaps in the ridiculously specific situations I mentioned earlier. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/17 "2018-06-02T22:40:12Z")
Another illustration of de vs du: _le coup de grâce_ vs _le coup du lapin_ ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-question/815191/18 "2018-06-03T00:20:15Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Another illustration of de vs du: > > _le coup de grâce_ vs _le coup du lapin_ Thank you all. Very helpful.