# French grammar questions.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 24, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977 "2006-04-24T13:19:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/21 "2006-04-26T05:22:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I wondered if “puisque” used to be “puis que” in old French - “then that”. I can sort of see how “since” could be rendered by the concept of “then that”. There is _alors que_ (“then that”) as well, which means more or less “while, when, whereas.” > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, the subjunctive mood is alive and well in modern French Much to my dismay. I still only use subjunctive correctly perhaps 75% of the time. > [@](#): > > “Autant” does not mean the same thing as “tant”; if you’ve found a sentence where both could be used, I’d like to hear it. On the other hand, I think that “auparavant” can usually be replaced by “avant”, but it doesn’t sound as good. What about “aupres”? Is it the same as “pres” (sorry, I don’t have the accents on my keyboard) ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/22 "2006-04-26T22:52:39Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > What about “aupres”? Is it the same as “pres” (sorry, I don’t have the accents on my keyboard) I believe so. “Je me sens bien auprès de toi” basically means “je me sens bien près de toi”, “I feel good close to you”. I can’t think of other usages right now. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/23 "2006-04-26T22:55:49Z")
Now that I think about it, there might be a slight difference in sense between “auprès” and “près”. “Je me sens bien auprès de toi” means “I feel good **next** to you” rather than “ **close** to you”. But it’s not a very big difference. ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/24 "2006-04-27T00:11:39Z")
Perhaps “auprès” vs. “près” is a similar distinction to “vers” vs. “envers” ? “envers” and “auprès” seem to have more of a figurative connotation. “Tu es sympa envers lui” - you’re nice to him, but “tu vas vers lui” - you’re going towards him. Now, how about “beneath” vs. “under” vs. “underneath” in English? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/25 "2006-04-27T02:03:59Z")
> [@DarrenS](#): > > Perhaps “auprès” vs. “près” is a similar distinction to “vers” vs. “envers” ? “envers” and “auprès” seem to have more of a figurative connotation. “Tu es sympa envers lui” - you’re nice to him, but “tu vas vers lui” - you’re going towards him. Well, the thing is that “vers” and “envers” cannot be used interchangeably. I should say that often “près” and “auprès” also cannot be switched, for example, in the sentence “il court près de la rive”, you could not substitute “auprès”. But other than that, I guess that your suggestion does make sense. “Auprès” does have a connotation of closeness in a more than “geographic” sense. “Auprès de toi” means more than just “near you”. ---
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/26 "2006-04-27T06:45:35Z")
Is there an “official” way to say girlfriend? For instance, if I want to tell a professor that “my girlfriend and I are looking for cheap tickets to the countryside”? I always say “ma copine”, but should I say something along the lines of my “partenaire”? Also, how do you say “to give someone a hard time”? For instance, “She always gives me a hard time when I’m late for a meeting”? Also, what’s it mean to say “ne me fait pas la gueule”? On that same note, there’s a Johnny Hallyday song on an optician’s commercial that says, “Quoi ma gueule? Qu’est qu’elle a ma gueule?” What’s that mean? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/27 "2006-04-27T10:20:34Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > Is there an “official” way to say girlfriend? For instance, if I want to tell a professor that “my girlfriend and I are looking for cheap tickets to the countryside”? I always say “ma copine”, but should I say something along the lines of my “partenaire”? To a professor? “Copine” should do. You should use “mon amie et moi” whn for some reason you think “ma copine” isn’t appropriate. If by “official” you mean on some official document, you could write “ma concubine”. “Ma partenaire” isn’t usual enough to be used informally, nor official enough to be used on documents. You could use it, but I’m not sure in what situation (apart when you’re refering to someone you’re dancing with or who belongs to the same team in a card game). It sounds a little affected. Maybe on an invitation? “M. et Mme Dupond ont le plaisir d’inviter M. Gitfiddle et sa partenaire”?? > [@](#): > > Also, how do you say “to give someone a hard time”? For instance, “She always gives me a hard time when I’m late for a meeting”? “Elle me fait passer un sale quart d’heure”? > [@](#): > > Also, what’s it mean to say “ne me fait pas la gueule”? Faire la gueule = to sulk? Either refusing to speak to someone, or letting appear that you’re irritated or in a bad mood. > [@](#): > > On that same note, there’s a Johnny Hallyday song on an optician’s commercial that says, “Quoi ma gueule? Qu’est qu’elle a ma gueule?” What’s that mean? Something like “my face? What do you say is wrong with my face, then?” more or less litteraly. I don’t remember the lyrics of this song, so I’m not sure what he’s refering to. Possibly a reaction to a provocative statement like “T’as vu ta gueule?” (implying there’s something wrong with your appearance). Typically, I would imagine this being said either during an escalating confrontation between two guys (“t’as vu ta gueule, connard?”) or following a failed attempt to hit on a girl (“Avec toi? Tu rigoles, tu as vu ta gueule?”) ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/28 "2006-04-27T14:28:14Z")
As to the contention that _tant_ and _autant_ aren’t (at least sometimes) interchangeable, can’t you say _“tant que ça,”_ just as well as you can say _“autant que ça”_? ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/29 "2006-04-27T16:12:36Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > Also, what’s it mean to say “ne me fait pas la gueule”? On that same note, there’s a Johnny Hallyday song on an optician’s commercial that says, “Quoi ma gueule? Qu’est qu’elle a ma gueule?” What’s that mean? Total speculation, but this could be a response to the imperative, “Ta gueule!” (“shut up!”). ---
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/30 "2006-04-27T17:51:53Z")
How do you say “to focus”? Is it always _se concentrer_? Are there other words? I’m using it in these contexts: “I’m trying to focus, but my mind keeps wandering.” “My studies focus mainly on linguistic philosophy.” As I’m writing this, I can think of other ways to say the sentences, which may be what it comes down to, but I often find myself pausing in the middle of a sentence when I would use the word “focus.” ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/31 "2006-04-27T19:08:25Z")
Unfortunately, the Franglais verb “focusser” is used, as bemoaned here: [http://radio-canada.ca/radio/francaismicro/description.asp?ID=13&CAT=F&leid=675&lacat=p](http://radio-canada.ca/radio/francaismicro/description.asp?ID=13&CAT=F&leid=675&lacat=p) ---
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/32 "2006-04-27T21:55:48Z")
> [@DarrenS](#): > > Unfortunately, the Franglais verb “focusser” is used, as bemoaned here: > > [http://radio-canada.ca/radio/francaismicro/description.asp?ID=13&CAT=F&leid=675&lacat=p](http://radio-canada.ca/radio/francaismicro/description.asp?ID=13&CAT=F&leid=675&lacat=p) Is that used in France as well? ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/33 "2006-04-27T23:43:50Z")
Oh yes. I heard it plenty when I lived in France, and worked in the computer industry there. “Dans ce meeting on va focusser sur la database.” In “proper” French: “Dans cette réunion, nous allons nous concentrer sur la base de données.” I noticed that the French also pronounce “focus” in English like “fuck us”, which led to much hilarity among the Anglos. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/34 "2006-04-28T10:42:55Z")
as in “can you now focus on the table” ? 😃 “geule” is literally an animal’s mouth, I guess you could say “muzzle” (but not the object we put on dogs) & appears in a number of colloquial expressions The “shut up” use would be closer to “shut your face” “faire la geule” is sulk, pull a face, brood and look unhappy - your example would be “don’t give me that look”. Good old Johnny was asking "what’s up with the wa ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/35 "2006-04-28T10:45:47Z")
argh how did I do that ??? Anywya he was asking what’s up with the way I look / don’t you like my face ? For the “ici, là, là-bas” thing try translating like thi “right here, here, there” or “right here, here/there, over there”. As for anglicisms like focus used in the buseiness context I regularly hear “On va faire un brainstorming” “J’ai un training” “C’est un no go” etc. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/36 "2006-04-28T10:50:38Z")
I hate it when my “u” goes AWOL like that. gueule guele guele ps there is also the verb “engueler” - to shout at, get in someone’s face about ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/37 "2006-04-28T10:49:28Z")
I hate it when my “u” goes AWOL like that. gueule guele guele ps there is also the verb “engueler” - to shout at, get in someone’s face about ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/38 "2006-04-28T16:11:08Z")
OK, since this is becoming a general French grammar thread: When is it OK to use articles after _sans_ ? Seems like most of the time you omit the article: sans trace sans mot dire sans aucune raison sans souci There are some cases where you stick the article in, though: sans la moindre réponse jamais sans ma fille The second one needs “ma” to convey the meaning I guess. I always feel that there’s a “pressure” after _sans_ to omit the article. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/39 "2006-04-28T18:29:41Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > As to the contention that _tant_ and _autant_ aren’t (at least sometimes) interchangeable, can’t you say _“tant que ça,”_ just as well as you can say _“autant que ça”_? You’re right, that’s a case where they can indeed be used interchangeably. Maybe I should check in a grammar before answering these questions, to see if there’s a particular usage that I might not be thinking about. > [@DarrenS](#): > > When is it OK to use articles after _sans_ ? Seems like most of the time you omit the article: I don’t know if there exists a rule about this, but I’ve never felt there was a “pressure” to omit the article after “sans”. There exist fixed expressions with “sans” that use an article (“sans le sou”), and in some cases you can use both (“sans bruit” or “sans un bruit”). I might check in my grammar tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977/40 "2006-04-28T18:45:27Z")
It could well be that the “pressure” is a subconscious nagging from my high school French teacher about putting articles with “sans”. 😃 It’s strange - even after studying French for so many years and living in the country for four years, I still have some overriding “prime directives” from school French in my head. Some sentences just sound weird to me, too: _Il est parti sans son parapluie._ That “sans son” grates on my ears. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-grammar-questions/353977.md?page=3)