# French pronunciation **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 23, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333 "2008-05-23T04:40:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/21 "2008-05-23T22:41:29Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] I would say it’s about as often used in french for husband as you would hear someone say in English “He’s my man” meaning “he’s my significant other” which could mean husband depending on the situation. For example the famous song by Mistinguett (also covered by Edith Piaf) _C’est mon homme_. [/QUOTE] Hmm… Interesting, I wonder if this is a regional-ism? Like I say I’ve never heard it in that context here in the Ile-de-France region of France, but rather “c’est mon copain” is used to convey the same (slang) meaning. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/22 "2008-05-23T22:50:15Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] And for many English speakers, “ah” does not indicate the vowel in “Tom,” you might me misperceiving something there. [/QUOTE] Works for virtually all American speakers, though. **Barbarian’s** pronunciation will be found here and there in the U.S., as well. **Mangetout’s** pronunciation (and I’ve not heard his link … just going by his location and description) will sound to many Americans not too far from “tome” or “tawm”. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/23 "2008-05-23T22:57:46Z")
This would be a lot easier if people would just use the [IPA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA). ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/24 "2008-05-23T23:03:21Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] How can “Tom” be pronounced differently from “Tahm”? [/QUOTE] That short O vowel sound is one that often gives away American actors trying to sound British. Gwyneth Paltrow is one of the few who really nailed it, hence all the praise for her British accent in _Sliding Doors_. It is closer to the American “aw”, i.e. if you want to say “Tom” and sound British, veer towards “Tawm” instead of “Tahm”. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/25 "2008-05-24T00:11:42Z")
Saying “short” and “long” as applied to letters is an inadequate way to describe English vowels (and when I say “vowel,” I mean sounds). This habit, which English teachers unversed in linguistics have instilled in vast numbers of unsuspecting students, makes people think that English has 10 vowels: a long and a short version of A, E, I, O and U. In fact, English has at least 21 vowels, depending on which linguist you ask. Using the terms “long” and “short” A, how do you distinguish the vowels in the words _hat_, _father_, and _hate_? What about the vowels in _cough_, _tough_, _through_, _ouch_, and _though_, all of which are spelled with OU but are pronounced differently? “Long” and “short” aren’t going to help you there. I repeat: use the IPA, whether you’re talking about English or French. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/26 "2008-05-24T02:54:05Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] It doesn’t rhyme with any of those words. The vowel is closest to the English “schwa” sound, but really it doesn’t line up with any English vowel, so an English speaker is really free to choose any of them. [/QUOTE] Even though it’s written with an ‘e’, which usually indicates a schwa, _femme_ is not pronounced that way. Listen to the examples posted by \*_Intelligently Designed_ and compare Serge Lama’s pronunciation of _femme, femme, femme_ with [Serge Gainsbourg’s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sQFBXyp4LI) _Je suis venu te dire que je m’en vais_ for shwa sounds. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/27 "2008-05-24T03:03:27Z")
Spent 2 years in French class and 2 years in France and I hear/say it as “fahm”, such as in _Cherchez la femme._ As for _femme fatale_, I’ve never heard it other than “fem fahtahl”. with the short e sound. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/28 "2008-05-24T10:42:23Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] I repeat: use the IPA, whether you’re talking about English or French. [/QUOTE] The IPA’s not that useful in casual discussions on message boards, though. You can’t type it and most people don’t know what the symbols mean anyway. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/29 "2008-05-24T15:11:40Z")
Oh, boy. :rolleyes: See, this is why French is so damned scary to me. I can walk into a roomful of two dozen people, say one word, and no more than two of them will believe I said it right. The rest would take me for a rube who can’t talk straight. So it’s probably a good thing I never asked that cute Jenny Saykwa to be my fumm. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/30 "2008-05-24T15:45:15Z")
The Velvet Underground guys clearly [sing](http://www.amazon.com/Femme-Fatale/dp/B000W25LN2/ref=sr_f2_8?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1211643578&sr=102-8) “fem”, but their pronunciation of French is probably as authoritative as Nico’s pronunciation of English. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/31 "2008-05-24T16:38:52Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] The IPA’s not that useful in casual discussions on message boards, though. [/QUOTE] Well, it would be, if more people used it. I think it’s a shame that many dictionaries for native English speakers completely ignore it, and invent their own system to “phonetisize.” [QUOTE=Usram] You can’t type it… [/QUOTE] Yes, you can. It’s one of the fonts of MS-Word, and you can download extensions for various other languages for free. [QUOTE=Usram] … and most people don’t know what the symbols mean anyway. [/QUOTE] I suppose you’re right there, but that’s only because of habit. Koreans all know it, because they’re expected to know some English to get a good job. If they can learn it, why can’t we? (Meaning English speakers.) The pronunciation of “femme” in French (the English way to say it depends on what you want to say)–well, I don’t have my French dictionary handy because I’m out of town at the moment, but I’d say [fɑm] (the finale consonant being nasal). But my French is pretty bad these days. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/32 "2008-05-24T16:56:44Z")
It’s fam or fahm (or in between), depending on who you learned your French from. I learned the language from francophone Africans, and it was closer to ‘fahm’. It is most certainly NOT ‘fem’. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/33 "2008-05-24T17:24:05Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] Yes, you can [type IPA]. It’s one of the fonts of MS-Word, and you can download extensions for various other languages for free. [/QUOTE] But there are no keys for many IPA symbols on a typical keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/34 "2008-05-24T17:33:22Z")
[QUOTE=Tom Tildrum] The Velvet Underground guys clearly [sing](http://www.amazon.com/Femme-Fatale/dp/B000W25LN2/ref=sr_f2_8?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1211643578&sr=102-8) “fem”, but their pronunciation of French is probably as authoritative as Nico’s pronunciation of English. [/QUOTE] They aren’t singing in French. They’re speaking English and thus using the correct _English_ pronunciation of “femme fatale.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/35 "2008-05-24T17:35:28Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] But there are no keys for many IPA symbols on a typical keyboard. [/QUOTE] There is a fairly standard transcription of IPA for ASCII. I and others have used it frequently on these and other boards. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/36 "2008-05-25T03:18:11Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] There is a fairly standard transcription of IPA for ASCII. I and others have used it frequently on these and other boards. [/QUOTE] With MS-Word, you use INSERT CHARACTER. With the SDMB, I don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/37 "2008-05-26T23:00:54Z")
a = a A = script a A. = turned script a & = ash D = edh e = e E = Greek e @ = schwa i = i i = small capital i (or iota) o = o O = open o S = esh T = theta u = u U = turned small capital omega (or closed lowercase omega) V = turned v (a.k.a. barless small capital a) ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/38 "2008-05-29T03:19:00Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] a = a A = script a A. = turned script a & = ash D = edh e = e E = Greek e @ = schwa i = i i = small capital i (or iota) o = o O = open o S = esh T = theta u = u U = turned small capital omega (or closed lowercase omega) V = turned v (a.k.a. barless small capital a) [/QUOTE] Okay, I’m going to try it out: I type an “@” and I get a…“@” I type a “T” and I get a…“T” Something isn’t working here for me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/39 "2008-05-29T12:56:22Z")
It is working,\*\* Guizot\*\*. It’s a _transcription_ of IPA for ASCII. The appearance doesn’t change to IPA, but it is understood what symbol is meant. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333/40 "2008-05-29T13:59:29Z")
[QUOTE=Angua] Hmm… Interesting, I wonder if this is a regional-ism? Like I say I’ve never heard it in that context here in the Ile-de-France region of France, but rather “c’est mon copain” is used to convey the same (slang) meaning. [/QUOTE] Well, maybe the Mistinguett song is from when people didn’t use friend to mean with benefits. IIRC she was Belle Epoque? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-pronunciation/450333.md?page=1)