# FRench translations (or not) of place names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462 "2005-09-20T01:06:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/1 "2005-09-20T01:06:31Z")
Watching the francophone weather channel this morning, I started wondering why some place names in the USA have a French-translated version, and others get to keep their original English name. For example: In French, it’s still New Jersey, but not so for Nouveau-Mexique. New York is good enough to keep its name, but Nouvelle-Orleans gets translated. Were the decisions made more or less based on what sounds better, or is there an actual reasoning process behind it? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/2 "2005-09-20T01:23:46Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > Watching the francophone weather channel this morning, I started wondering why some place names in the USA have a French-translated version, and others get to keep their original English name. > > For example: > > In French, it’s still New Jersey, but not so for Nouveau-Mexique. > New York is good enough to keep its name, but Nouvelle-Orleans gets translated. > > Were the decisions made more or less based on what sounds better, or is there an actual reasoning process behind it? Well, part of the reasoning is that “Nouvelle-Orleans” was the original name, since it was founded by the French, after all. They probably never changed what they called the city in their minds. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/3 "2005-09-20T02:54:30Z")
Well that makes sense for New Orleans, but then what about poor New Mexico? ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/4 "2005-09-20T03:36:33Z")
Just guessing here, but it seems that since New Mexico is a “New” version of a country for which they have already chosen to call _Mexique_, calling it _Nouvelle-Mexique_ probably works better on the French tongue. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/5 "2005-09-20T13:16:47Z")
A friend from Colombia once told me they say “Nueva York” there. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/6 "2005-09-20T13:25:18Z")
Probably for the same reasons Germany is l’Allemagne but Canada is le Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/7 "2005-09-20T13:26:08Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > Just guessing here, but it seems that since New Mexico is a “New” version of a country for which they have already chosen to call _Mexique_, calling it _Nouvelle-Mexique_ probably works better on the French tongue. Surely the French have a word for Jersey, though, seeing as it’s a Channel Island just off of their coast? ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/8 "2005-09-20T13:33:16Z")
Okay, slightly more helpful answer: If they already have a name for a place, they’ll keep using it, and if a place is a modification of a place they have a name for, like Nouvelle Mexique, it’s not hard to imagine them sticking to French. If it’s a place they never had a name for they will probably be more inclined to go with what everyone else is calling it, unless the name means something obvious, like the United States, in which case they will probably translate it, in the case of the US to les Etats-Unis. And **Dominic Mulligan** , while I’m sure the French were aware of Jersey’s existence, it might not have figured significantly enough in their daily life for them to bother having a name for it. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/9 "2005-09-20T14:19:08Z")
The French for “Jersey” (where some French is still spoken) is “Jersey”, so a full French transation of “New Jersey” would be “Nouveau Jersey”. ---
**Author:** ![Kiminy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Kiminy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiminy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/10 "2005-09-20T21:55:24Z")
As someone else said, the city started with the name _la Nouvelle-Orléans_, so it’s not likely to change for a French speaker. This is also true of St. Louis and Louisville–at least in how they are pronounced. _Le Mexique_ is masculine, so the French word for New Mexico should be le _Nouveau Mexique_. This may be translated simply because French people are familiar with _le Mexique_ already. Jersey and York, however, are quite definitely English words, with no French equivalent, so the French are more used to hearing those words already. We do a lot of the same things to French cities/placenames, though. For example, we say Bordeaux and Cannes pretty much the way they are pronounced in French. But we insist on adding the s to the end of Paris, and we say _Brittany_ instead of _Bretagne_. We also pronounce _Champagne_ very differently from the original French. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/11 "2005-09-21T00:22:01Z")
> [@Kiminy](#): > > We do a lot of the same things to French cities/placenames, though. For example, we say Bordeaux and Cannes pretty much the way they are pronounced in French. But we insist on adding the s to the end of Paris, and we say _Brittany_ instead of _Bretagne_. We also pronounce _Champagne_ very differently from the original French. I was just about to send a reply, and my Windows XP suddenly rebooted! I hate it when it does that! :mad: Anyway, here’s what I wanted to say. It seems to me that Americans also add an ‘s’ to the names of some French cities, like Lyon and Marseille. As for the OP, there are other American places that are written or pronounced differently in French. A few states have “francisized” names, such as _Floride_, _Californie_, _Géorgie_, _Caroline du Nord_ / _du Sud_ and _Dakota du Nord_ / _du Sud_. A few cities too, like _Détroit_. These seem to be the states whose names translate easily, and as for _Détroit_, I think the city was originally French, like _Saint Louis_ and _La Nouvelle-Orléans_. A few states also have a different pronounciation in French, like Illinois (pronounced “Ilinwa”, and the word was originally a French transliteration of an Indian name, so I guess it is the original pronounciation) and Vermont (which presumably comes from _vert mont_ – green mountain – and is pronounced just like that). In other cases, though, I can’t explain it. Why, when I say “Boston” in French, do I change the pronounciation, while I keep the English pronounciation of “New York” and “Albany”, for example? I can’t say, but I’ve always done it this way. “Arkansas” is also weird. I’ve read here that many people say ar-KAN-saw, not pronouncing the last ‘s’, because it was originally a plural French name. Well, in French, I do pronounce the final ‘s’. Funny, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/french-translations-or-not-of-place-names/322462/12 "2005-09-21T04:52:59Z")
> [@severus](#): > > I’ve read here that many people say ar-KAN-saw, not pronouncing the last ‘s’, because it was originally a plural French name. Well, in French, I do pronounce the final ‘s’. Funny, isn’t it? Actually, the stress is on the first syllable: AR-kan-saw