# Frenchie Davis kicked off American Idol **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499 "2003-02-12T02:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/81 "2003-02-13T22:46:43Z")
He’s executive producer of the show. This story undoubtably was found out last night and Simon went to NY to decide what the Hell to do about it. That’s why he said “I can’t say why (he’s in NY)” ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/82 "2003-02-13T23:32:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoff \* > > \*\*The TV Column in today’s _Washington Post_ says that a sponsor pitched a fit. Some posters might think stripping is worse than a porn site, but evidently the sponsor disagrees. Neither opinion is objectively correct. > > We also don’t know the identity of the sponsor > > \ > > Let’s wait for actual information before we jump to conclusions about the reason for Frenchie’s booting. \*\* Read it again. It makes no such assertion. It _speculates_ that that’s what _might’ve_ happened… (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > That kind of talk **is often another way of saying** an advertiser blew a fuse. Therefore, all your other contentions are moot. Besides, we _do_ have “actual information”. Fox held a press conference yesterday, during which co-executive producer Nigel Lythgoe stated, “If that photo had come out and you’d seen an ‘American Idol’ logo on that, you’d go, ‘No, I’m sorry,’” Nigel said. “We have to be very careful. This is a real family show. It’s now a brand.” ( [http://entertainmenttonight.com/celebrity/a14491.htm](http://entertainmenttonight.com/celebrity/a14491.htm) ) That’s crap. As **Alzarian** says above, their logo is copyrighted and they’d sue the pants off anyone trying to capitalize on their brand. And win. Not to mention, they have no way of knowing what _I’d_ have said, or what _you’d_ have said, let alone what everyone would’ve said if we’d’ve seen such a picture, so their generalization is complete crap. And they actually have the utter GALL to call what she did a “moral mistake”. They continue to MISREPRESENT her actions as posing for a website catering to “ **under** age” girls, when, the proper terminology is “ **teen** age” girls. And not only that, but according to Frenchie, in an interview with Entertainment Tonight, the website she posed for **FOUR years ago** has changed ownership and format since she posed… > [@](#): > > “Four years ago, I modeled in lingerie on an adult Web site,” the tearful contestant told our special correspondent PAULA ABDUL. “From what I hear, the Web site is under new ownership and it’s a lot different now than when I worked for it. I would never compromise my integrity to be successful.” And not only that, but the Producers have acknowledged that she was 100% upfront and honest with them, yet they didn’t disqualify her at the start. It’s utterly outrageous that they would DARE use the “this is a family show” line of bull all of a sudden, when the “family” nature of the show didn’t matter a hill of beans when it was Nikki McKibbon stripping LIVE for men. And let me get this straight – it’s morally wrong to expose your breasts in pretty lingerie and pose for photographs in what is probably a very safe setting in a private studio, but gyrating around and stripping naked in a sleazy club in front of men who’re oogling you, LIVE, is A-OK?? The latter falls under the catagory of “family girl” but the former doesn’t?? I’m just so utterly disgusted by the hypocracy I could spit. As for why some of us care so much about what’s happened to this woman, perhaps you should blame that on Fox, who teased and taunted us with her talent, then uncerimoniously yanked her from the show, which many of us were tuning in to _just_ to hear this amazing woman sing and see if she could make it all the way to the end and actually win. That IS the allure of the show, afterall, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/83 "2003-02-13T23:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ISiddiqui \* > **I also don’t understand this obsession with Frenchie. Maybe it is the JFK syndrome (JFK attained mythic status after getting shot). IMO, Reuben was the best Idol contestant bar none (even with Frenchie in it).** Huh? Frenchie was a favored candidate before this storm ever broke (look at how many people mentioned herhere and here. Even in the auditions she stood out (to me, at least) because her voice was so strong and beautiful, but her body didn’t fit the current definition of ‘pop idol’. And I think that’s really the reason that so many people are so hung up on this. American Idol works with direct imput from the viewers. If someone like Frenchie Davis won AI, or came close to winning, it might help to convince the trendsetters to swing away from the anorexic kick and begin to promote people who wear normal sizes. 21,826 signatures on the online petition currently. I think they’re getting something on the order of 100 an hour. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/84 "2003-02-13T23:58:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Shayna_ > Read it again. It makes no such assertion. It speculates that that’s what might’ve happened Well, a person whose makes a living reporting on television says, after talking to a source, that it was likely the advertisers. Maybe I’ve lived too close to Washington for too long but when an anonymous source is quoted, then there’s speculation, it’s a way of telling the readers what the source said while honoring the request that the information is off the record. But, in the end, I’m not sure it matters. > [@](#): > > Therefore, all your other contentions are moot. Nope. Even assuming that it wasn’t an advertiser, the points stand. Nigel Lythgoe is not a Fox employee. He is the guy who started _Popstars_ in the UK then brought it to the US as _American Idol_. He was not involved with _Joe Millionaire_ so using the bondage girl as proof of racism doesn’t work. Fox and Lythgoe may well be sugar-coating a lot of things, which is not unusual in that business. But their comments still don’t support your charge that they got mad because Frenchie is a big black woman. > [@](#): > > And let me get this straight – it’s morally wrong to expose your breasts in pretty lingerie and pose for photographs in what is probably a very safe setting in a private studio, but gyrating around and stripping naked in a sleazy club in front of men who’re oogling you, LIVE, is A-OK?? They have their opinion and you have yours. But it still doesn’t support your charge. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/85 "2003-02-14T00:21:36Z")
First of all, **Zoff** , I didn’t use the bondage girl from Millionaire as proof of racism. In fact, I specifically said that it probably _wasn’t_ fair to compare contestants from completely different shows to contestants on this one: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Shayna_ > > **While I’d agree that it’s not quite the same as the Millionaire chick’s bondage films, it’s certainly comparable to last year’s AI contestant, Nikki, who was a topless dancer/stripper for a living.** I also never charged them with getting mad at this woman because she’s a big black woman. I’ll thank you to quit misrepresenting my stand here. I specifically said there was **no evidence** of racism, but it certainly was suspicious that it was OK for the skinny white chick last year, but suddenly bad this year when it’s a large black woman. And Nigel Lythgoe not working for Fox is relevant HOW? He’s the co-executive producer of the show and he was at the press with Fox executives explaining their (illogical) reason for booting the most talented woman in this competition. I have no _clue_ what you’re trying to argue here. Like I’ve said before – Fox and 19 Entertainment’s motives are suspect In My Opinion. The woman was up front with them when she applied for Idol and **they allowed her to enter and compete**. She was of legal age when she posed and contends that she was shown in lingerie. I don’t give a rat’s patootie about the bondage chick or the stipper chick except as they relate to FOX trying to suddenly take the “moral” high ground. And for the record – if Frenchie Davis had been a large white woman or a skinny black woman or a polka dotted rabbit, I’d still find Fox hypocrical beyond belief in their actions against her. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/86 "2003-02-14T00:46:22Z")
First off, I did confuse your argument with **Stoid’s** on certain points, so I apologize. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Shayna_ > I also never charged them with getting mad at this woman because she’s a big black woman. I’ll thank you to quit misrepresenting my stand here. I specifically said there was no evidence of racism, but it certainly was suspicious that it was OK for the skinny white chick last year, but suddenly bad this year when it’s a large black woman. To me, this is a distinction without a difference. “Gee, I’m not saying they’re racist or don’t like heavy people but the only difference I see is that one is skinny and white and one is heavy and black” is a pretty clear statement. My point, which admittedly got confused, is that there are several reasons why a reasonable person could find stripping and a porn site different. You defined them as the same then focused on weight and race as the only difference. But I’d wager that if you conducted a poll more people would be offput by a porn site catering to people who want to see a teenager jerk off than would be offput by a stripper. It’s entirely possible that the producer hates overweight black people and wanted to boot Frenchie. But I’d like to see some proof other than a statement that stripping and porn are the same so it must be the weight and race. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Defense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Civil\_Defense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Defense)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/87 "2003-02-14T01:25:36Z")
> [@](#): > > He’s executive producer of the show. This story undoubtably was found out last night and Simon went to NY to decide what the Hell to do about it. > > That’s why he said “I can’t say why (he’s in NY)” Simon **Fuller** and Simon **Jones** are 2 of the executive producers of the show. ---
**Author:** ![stylize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@stylize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stylize)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/88 "2003-02-14T02:41:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > \*\* If someone like Frenchie Davis won AI, or came close to winning, it might help to convince the trendsetters to swing away from the anorexic kick and begin to promote people who wear normal sizes. \*\* I’m sorry but Frenchie is not “normal size.” It is great that she is happy with herself but she is still overweight to the point where it would seem like she would be unhealthy. And even if they didn’t use the logo, couldn’t they still say “American Idol Frenchie” or something to that effect? I know that they did that with Simon Rex’s video when he was a VJ for MTV. The point is that it could still be out there and associated with the show; is it that unreasonable for the producers to not want those images associated with their program? I still don’t get why the level of outrage is so high. You barely saw her. She sang. I seriously doubt that she is the best unsigned singer in the country based on what we heard. Last year people liked Ryan Starr after her semifinal performance (more than we heard of Frenchie). If she was kicked off for some sort of porn thing, would there be this outrage? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/89 "2003-02-14T04:46:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stylize \* > \*\* > > Last year people liked Ryan Starr after her semifinal performance (more than we heard of Frenchie). If she was kicked off for some sort of porn thing, would there be this outrage? I doubt it. \*\* A) Ryan Starr wasn’t in the same league as Frenchie on any level. B) Whether she was or wasn’t, what would be your point? What do YOU think the reason for the outrage is, specifically? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/90 "2003-02-14T05:16:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Frenchie was a favored candidate before this storm ever broke That’s why I wonder about things. I thought Reuben blew her out of the water. > [@](#): > > Simon Fuller and Simon Jones are 2 of the executive producers of the show. Sorry, I mean Simon was going to be the executive producer of the (eventual) record. Case of fingers going faster than mind. ---
**Author:** ![Alzarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@Alzarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alzarian)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/91 "2003-02-14T05:41:36Z")
While it’s certainly not unusual for a sponsor to raise a fit over such things, I do have to wonder whether the show could have stood up to the sponsor in this case, if they wanted to. I mean, gee, the show has to make money, and losing a sponsor means losing serious bucks, but after the amazing ratings “American Idol” has garnished this season, I can imagine many sponsors stepping up to the plate should advertising spots open up, and possibly even pay more money than the disgruntled sponsor is currently paying. I had read an article a couple weeks ago about how the Fox network sold those spots at a great price, as no one suspected the series would be as popular as it has become. On the other hand, sponsor could refer to one of the big names that not only buy commercials, but put in their own product placement and want to be associated with the show in every way. Losing such a sponsor could have ramifications for future programs, so I could see the fear of alienating them. Still kinda disgusts me… And as for Frenchie, how long will she have to suffer for something she did in the past? I daresay many people have done foolish or reckless things in their youth. We hope that they don’t come back to destroy us. People make mistakes and people change. I wish we could move on. And what really bothers me about this case and so many other “scandals” that the media thrives on, is that one never pays any attention to the real problem, which is the jealous/greedy/vengeful tattletalers. Whoever broke the story was out to harm Frenchie, and maybe even make some money out of the process. (Sorry, but i’m still smarting over the Miss North Carolina morality witch hunt…) ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/92 "2003-02-14T05:44:07Z")
I think the outrage comes from a lack of really impressive contestants this year (Frenchie was definitely one of the few that you absolutely _knew_ was going to be in the top 10) and her overall personality. I know I was hooked on her when she was talking about how her friends took up the collection so she could go audition. I think it’s just that this is a girl a lot of people thought could take it all the way, and without her we’re missing out on what could have been some really good competition. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/93 "2003-02-14T06:23:39Z")
Maybe on her American Idol application where it says “Do not write in this space” she put “okay”. ---
**Author:** ![stylize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@stylize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stylize)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/94 "2003-02-14T06:40:21Z")
> [@](#): > > A) Ryan Starr wasn’t in the same league as Frenchie on any level. > > B) Whether she was or wasn’t, what would be your point? What do YOU think the reason for the outrage is, specifically? After her semifinal performance (Frim Fram), people loved her and her style. It wasn’t until after that that she proved how bad she was. I think that people are outraged because Frenchie represents the “anti-American Idol” and they wanted her to win. We have seen maybe three minutes of her singing; is her voice really that unique that she had to win? Go to any choir and you’ll find girls with big voices. She hasn’t really proven anything extraordinary through her voice. I think that people wanted her to win the contest, not necessarily see her because she was so fantastic. I’m sorry if this doesn’t make sense. I am not saying that she sucks or is bad; she is a good singer. I just don’t really see what the big deal is. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499/95 "2003-02-14T07:08:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stylize \* > \*\* > I think that people are outraged because Frenchie represents the “anti-American Idol” and they wanted her to win. \*\* I absolutely agree. And is there something wrong with that? > [@](#): > > \*\* We have seen maybe three minutes of her singing; is her voice really that unique that she had to win? Go to any choir and you’ll find girls with big voices. > > I just don’t really see what the big deal is. \*\* Several things: 1. From what I’ve heard up to now, she had a GREAT voice. 2. She has a FANTASTIC attitude. 3. She’s a terrific, charismatic, exciting performer. 4. It would have been thrilling to see such a great talent, in a package that would normally be considered completely wrong, kick everybody’s ass. We’re pissed we’ve been denied the opportunity to see that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frenchie-davis-kicked-off-american-idol/154499.md?page=4)