# Fresco Restoration - Leave it to The Pros **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 22, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307 "2012-08-22T21:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/21 "2012-08-23T14:02:58Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I can see this meme catching on. Even as I write, I bet someone out there on the net is doing a “Last Supper” in the same style. In the Spanish intarwebs, it has already caught on. Lots of people have made their own … uh, “contributions” based on this. And, indeed, they _already_ have done the “Last Supper” in that style: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/8442/7844502436_5afa160c92_z.jpg "ultimacena") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/27806063@N05/7844502436/sizes/z/in/photostream/) Also, this one – the conversation between Neo and Morpheus goes: Neo: I know Photoshop. Morpheus: Show me. [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/8300/7844508164_8fc4f02117_z.jpg "matrix") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/27806063@N05/7844508164/sizes/c/in/photostream/) Finally, here we have the dear old lady in person _improving_ “The Creation of Adam” at the Sistine Chapel. The word balloon says: Dear Old Lady: That’s much better! [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/7117/7844515462_4708a7d259_b.jpg "sistina") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/27806063@N05/7844515462/in/photostream) ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/22 "2012-08-23T15:48:39Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > In the Spanish intarwebs, it has already caught on. Lots of people have made their own … uh, “contributions” based on this. Thanks for translating, those are great. > [@phouka](#): > > You know, I see the humor, but it’s the kind of laughing that could so easily turn into abject weeping. A hundred or more years old fresco turned into a joke. It is a little sad as well as hilarious. If it can’t be restored, they were talking about replacing it with a photo of the original, which sounds like a good idea to me. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/23 "2012-08-23T15:53:32Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > You know, I see the humor, but it’s the kind of laughing that could so easily turn into abject weeping. A hundred or more years old fresco turned into a joke. Well, it _is_ the kind of situation that’s described in Spanish as _me río por no llorar_; I’m laughing because the other option is weeping. The woman did it with the best of intentions (and I’m sure she didn’t imagine the permission), it’s completely different from someone destroying a painting on purpose. And it’s not as if professional fixers haven’t screwed up before: species of trees and animals which were introduced into Spain as part of reforestation schemes are now considered “kill on sight invaders”; a lot of the damage in the old cathedral of Vitoria (the one which inspired Ken Follet’s _World Without End_) was caused by well-intentioned, mistaken restoration attempts. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/24 "2012-08-23T15:56:56Z")
Nobody expects the Spanish composition. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/25 "2012-08-23T17:59:20Z")
I feel bad for the old woman. She probably feels terrible and remember to her, this is a religious icon. But 100 years from now her work will be falling apart and another old lady will fix it and everyone will be up in arms about it. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/26 "2012-08-23T18:26:37Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Nobody expects the Spanish composition. Bad **lieu**! Bad! _spank_ ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/27 "2012-08-23T19:03:52Z")
And now the oral sex? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/28 "2012-08-23T19:41:21Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I can see this meme catching on. Even as I write, I bet someone out there on the net is doing a “Last Supper” in the same style. I want The Last Supper in Poker-Playing Dogs style. Judas _must_ be a Dachshund! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Me](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mr.Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Me)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/29 "2012-08-23T20:52:25Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I want The Last Supper in Poker-Playing Dogs style. Judas _must_ be a Dachshund! Sorry, we’re out of Dachshunds. How about an [Akita](https://d.facdn.net/art/falconpunch/1321306069.falconpunch_1321245116.firefeathers_furry_last_supperfa.png)? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/30 "2012-08-24T00:22:42Z")
[An “Ecce Homo” Fresco](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/world/europe/botched-restoration-of-ecce-homo-fresco-shocks-spain.html?_r=3&hp) gets a facelift, and I can’t stop giggling every time I look at it. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/31 "2012-08-24T00:26:57Z")
This is like the fourth thread started on this. The previously merged threads are [over here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=662934). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/32 "2012-08-24T00:42:45Z")
Would it have been better if she’d skilfully painted a very faithful rendition of the original over the top? Would that still have been desecration? If there’s a mural on a wall somewhere that gets maintained every few years by the original artist, then he/she passes on the mantle to a successor, who continues to retouch the mural, and so on, for several generations, is that artwork any more or less valuable, intrinsically, than one that was painted once at the start, and left to flake and crumble until today? I don’t have any kind of point to make, I’m just trying to unpick in my own mind what I think it is that seems to mean that the longer something is left untouched, the more important it is that it remains untouched. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/33 "2012-08-24T00:47:32Z")
See: [Ship of Theseus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/34 "2012-08-24T00:50:53Z")
Familiar with it already, but it’s not really the question - what I’m wondering is why it’s OK to do something continuously, but not OK to start again after stopping. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/35 "2012-08-24T00:52:48Z")
Goddammit, what’s cafe society for if not to discuss hilarious artwork? I didn’t look in MPSIMS for art! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/36 "2012-08-24T01:23:20Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Would it have been better if she’d skilfully painted a very faithful rendition of the original over the top? Well, it wouldn’t be an international laughingstock. ---
**Author:** ![Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pine_Fresh_Scent)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/37 "2012-08-24T02:10:53Z")
“And, you know, the thing about Our Savior… he’s got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll’s eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn’t seem to be living… until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then… ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin’…” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/38 "2012-08-24T02:44:06Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Would it have been better if she’d skilfully painted a very faithful rendition of the original over the top? Would that still have been desecration? No, and neither was this. Desecration involves intent to desecrate, which was never there. Not a complete “second layer”, but many restorations consist of touch-ups to the damaged areas. And I’m remembering the fuss when some idiot left Philip IV with four legs: Velázquez had started work on a full-body portrait, didn’t like the legs and changed them; the restorer found the first set of legs and left them on. Eventually the “are you correcting _Velazquez_’s corrections? Really? What’s next, straightening La Pedrera?” mindset won over “oh but this way you can see the whole process”. The aforementioned old cathedral of Vitoria has a light show at the main gate: analysis discovered that it had been painted and re-painted many times through the years, always in bright colors but never trying to re-copy the previous version. Rather than “let’s preserve this priceless work of art”, the original mindset was “this is starting to look like shit, let’s redecorate”. So how do you pick which layer to re-paint now? The answer is: thanks to modern technology, you don’t. The light show projects different color compositions on the gate, each of them one of the layers found by the analysts. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/39 "2012-08-24T05:29:49Z")
> [@Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](#): > > “And, you know, the thing about Our Savior… he’s got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll’s eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn’t seem to be living… until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then… ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin’…” Couldn’t a said it better meself. Here’s to swimmin’ with very hairy monkeys in ill fittin’ tunics. Farewell and adieu to you old Spanish ladies… Farewell and adieu you ladies of Spain! ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307/40 "2012-08-24T06:00:59Z")
> [@Mr.Me](#): > > Sorry, we’re out of Dachshunds. How about an [Akita](https://d.facdn.net/art/falconpunch/1321306069.falconpunch_1321245116.firefeathers_furry_last_supperfa.png)? Whaaaaaaa? 😕 Somewhere there sits medication untaken. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresco-restoration-leave-it-to-the-pros/632307.md?page=3)