# Fresh from the Sunday paper...what a clusterf\*ck...literally **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112 "2006-01-29T21:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/41 "2006-01-30T21:33:59Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > From the viewpoint of a nonbeliever, the profession itself is parasitic. The only real question is how much harm they do. Not necessarily - I don’t consider myself a believer, and (again) I do not think the profession is parasitic. I prefer the term dick for people like Paulk. ---
**Author:** ![LadySybil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@LadySybil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LadySybil)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/42 "2006-01-30T23:56:31Z")
**Princhester,** let me explain my point of view a little further. These women believed they had no choice at all because they were brainwashed into that belief by someone they thought they knew well and trusted very much. They gave up their possible choices, discarding them as useless or otherwise invalid. They learned a lesson from it eventually, horrible as their ordeals were. The idea of the freedom of choice is only defeated when a person gives up their right to choose, as the women currently accusing Rev. Paulk did. I still want to punch the reverend and his brother in certain strategic areas. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/43 "2006-01-31T00:52:02Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > From the viewpoint of a nonbeliever, the profession itself is parasitic. The only real question is how much harm they do. Gotta disagree. I’m a nonbeliever, and I don’t see the profession as parasitic - in fact, I’ve seen it do a lot of good for a lot of people. Just because I don’t believe in God doesn’t mean I discount those who do and choose to dedicate their lives to their belief as “parasites”. Most of them obviously believe in what they’re doing, and sure as hell aren’t getting rich or trying to scam their parishoners. In fact, that seems like a pretty ignorant assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/44 "2006-01-31T03:39:26Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I would say that a vast majority do. But as it is with politicians, those that rise to the top of their professions are those with ambitions to rise to the top, and IMHO that means a corruptable personality. A clergyman who honestly believes in living a life of charity and poverty is not likely to be the kind who will end up with a televised megachurch. > > If I had to judge the clergy as a whole based only on those I have met personally in my low-income liberal circles, I’d say they were some pretty decent fellows. If I had to judge them based solely on what I’d seen in the media, I’d have to rank them as some of the lowest life forms we have. Oh, absolutely. People who seriously want to help humanity don’t have TV shows. They don’t have time to Brylcreem their hair, and they wouldn’t waste the money. But they aren’t the majority of clergy. I’ve personally known clergy who were close to what I’d call living saints, and I’ve personally known clergy who were just as greedy as your stereotypical CEO. And I’ve known both types personally. Is either one representative of the group as a whole? Not really. Just like in any other profession, you have the good folks and the bad folks. Becoming a clergyman does not change the person you are. > [@Evil Captor](#): > > Apples and oranges. Doctors of whatever nationality perform useful services. Clergy just con people about great sky fairies. As opposed to entirely useless services like feeding the hungry, comforting and tending to the sick and dying and bereaved, taking care of the homeless, aiding victims of disasters, that sort of thing. You can believe in a power greater than yourself or not, I don’t give a damn. And yes, there are secular organizations who do the same. But that does not take away from what the religious ones do, too, and the worst the recipient is likely to have to put up with is an advertisement for Deity of Choice (This meal brought to you by God. God: He makes a good taco). > [@Der Trihs](#): > > From the viewpoint of a nonbeliever, the profession itself is parasitic. The only real question is how much harm they do. Assuming that God doesn’t exist, why does it matter to you what people believe? As long as they don’t cause people pain by their actions, getting your knickers in a twist about their beliefs is very thought-policey. It is harmful to say “God made your husband sick because you don’t believe hard enough. Give me some money or take off your clothes to prove you really do believe, and maybe God will spare him.” We can agree on that, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/45 "2006-01-31T09:19:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That doesn’t really translate, though, because a doctor is only ever going to be in the national eye when he does something wrong. Televangelists try to place themselves in the national eye. You never needed a scandal to look at a guy like Paulk (or Falwell, or Robertson, or…) and smell a rat. And televangelists do overwhelmingly reek of rodent, as a rule. However, I agree with the over all point that folks such as them are not representative of clergy in general. Oh, televangelists. We’re not plagued with them over here - religious TV is a very modest affair Brit-side, an hour or two of extremely non-offensive programming (non-offensive unless your name is **Der Trihs** , of course) and certainly none of this soliciting money for prayers or the promise of miracles, which sounds uncomfortably close to simony in my view. On the received wisdom, though I ought to make some allowance for misleading vividness, you’re welcome to roast televangelists all you like. I’ll even throw a faggot or two on the fire for you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/46 "2006-01-31T16:50:52Z")
I don’t believe in the great flying pink spaghetti unicorn monster. I was brought up a Christmas and Easter protestant. I have seen my brother in his 40’s find a faith in God and quit his job and the career track as a hospital administrator and join a seminary. It’s a small rural congregation and he is the happiest he’s ever been in his life. I think he’s a little nuts but respect him more than I can express. **Chefguy** take that word _all_ and shove it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/47 "2006-02-01T02:23:36Z")
> [@Little Plastic Ninja](#): > > Assuming that God doesn’t exist, why does it matter to you what people believe? As long as they don’t cause people pain by their actions, getting your knickers in a twist about their beliefs is very thought-policey. Because they _won’t_ leave unbelievers alone. The believers never have, and they never will. > [@Malacandra](#): > > (non-offensive unless your name is Der Trihs, of course) Not “offensive”. Irritating and embarrassing. I don’t like belonging to a species that actually indulges in such nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/48 "2006-02-01T17:16:15Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Because they _won’t_ leave unbelievers alone. The believers never have, and they never will. The dicks won’t leave the unbelievers alone. Not all believers are dicks. Don’t let the dicks give everyone else a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/49 "2006-02-02T05:04:15Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Because they _won’t_ leave unbelievers alone. The believers never have, and they never will. Define “they”. Christians in general? Clergy in general? Televangelists? If you just mean ‘believers’, for the most part they do. Most believers shrug off people saying “Well, I don’t believe in God”. They might ask why, but I’ve known only a tiny tiny handful who would actually get offended and cranky. Then again, when you start mocking people, you should damn well expect them to take offense. Leave the believers alone to believe what they will, and for the most part they’ll leave you alone. Through a long period of belief in no particular higher power, the only times I was harassed were when I frankly invited it on myself by confronting street preachers. Oh, and that one time my roleplaying group got approached by the University Baptist Alliance. “So… do you guys REALLY believe you’re vampires?” “You know you’re worshiping Satan, right?” I mistyped “worshiping Stan” for that one before I fixed it. I AM A STAN WORSHIPER Poor marginalized atheist. You should go straight out there and tell all the silly believers the truth. And when they know the truth, it will open their eyes and they will suddenly believe – yes! Trihs has the answers! All these years… This is inspiring me to write an anti-Chick tract. “I believe God is watching us!” “But Billy, to believe in God is irrational. His existence is unprovable, and you wouldn’t want to believe lies, would you?” “You’re so right, Sally! I’ve been blind all these years, but ten seconds of talking to you and I’m completely convinced!” 😃 Frankly, human beings enjoy their delusions. Believing in a God helps some of us believe in other imaginary things like justice and mercy. > [@](#): > > Not “offensive”. Irritating and embarrassing. I don’t like belonging to a species that actually indulges in such nonsense. Piffle. Video games, fiction, and message boards are nonsense. And even as I keep hearing atheists say, trying to convince believers there is no God is like talking to a brick wall. Don’t bother – live and let live. The converts to atheism come of their own volition and for their own reasons. They don’t need intolerant yahoos at their forefront giving their beliefs a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/50 "2006-02-02T13:55:53Z")
> [@Little Plastic Ninja](#): > > I mistyped “worshiping Stan” for that one before I fixed it. I AM A STAN WORSHIPER Rather like the dyslexic devil-worshipper who sold his soul to Santa. 😃 > [@Little Plastic Ninja](#): > > Frankly, human beings enjoy their delusions. Believing in a God helps some of us believe in other imaginary things like justice and mercy. Excellent. Although I for my part believe in the existence of God as a fact in its own right, not merely for what else it helps me believe in, I like this. The mere fact that grinding the whole Earth to powder fine enough to pass a molecular sieve would not enable us to sift out one atom of justice or mercy does not persuade us that neither exists. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/51 "2006-02-02T13:56:48Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Not so. In a con, you have the mark, who lacks true knowledge of the situation, and the con, who knows the truth, and abuses the mark’s lack of knowledge. A member of the clergy actually believes God exists - thus, no con. There are, i’m sure, clergy who do not believe in God, but use their positions for personal gain, just like any other authority can - however, these are the minority. Whether it’s the cons leading the marks, or the marks leading the marks, there’s still a con going on. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/52 "2006-02-02T14:02:20Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > No, he’s just parading his own anti-religious bigotry, and so are you. On a random sample of clergyfolk I’ve known in my life, I can’t find one I’d call a parasite. Hastily generalize much? Religion is a con. There are no Great Sky Fairies. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/53 "2006-02-02T14:05:50Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Well, that’s somewhat of an improvement. We got all the way up to post 19 before Bush was dragged into it. > > Tell us something, **Evil Captor**. Given the nature of this thread, why didn’t you name Bill Clinton? Would have been much, much more appropriate. No. Enough people voting for Bush twice to let him steal the election without being obvious enough about it to be easily caught is proof positive we got a lot of stupid Americans out there. Voting for Clinton was not necessarily indicative of stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/54 "2006-02-02T14:23:54Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Religion is a con. There are no Great Sky Fairies. Oh, all right then. In mitigation I must plead that I had no idea that thorny theological issues were so easily resolved. But now that a guy on a message board has revealed the truth, I need have no further concerns: God does not exist, and all religion is a con. Will you pass it on to the Pope and other interested parties, or would you like me to? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/55 "2006-02-02T23:38:13Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Oh, all right then. In mitigation I must plead that I had no idea that thorny theological issues were so easily resolved. But now that a guy on a message board has revealed the truth, I need have no further concerns: God does not exist, and all religion is a con. Will you pass it on to the Pope and other interested parties, or would you like me to? > > :rolleyes: I had no idea the Pope would be inteerested in hearing that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/56 "2006-02-02T23:51:37Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Not “offensive”. Irritating and embarrassing. I don’t like belonging to a species that actually indulges in such nonsense. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, then. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/57 "2006-02-03T02:19:27Z")
> [@Little Plastic Ninja](#): > > People who seriously want to help humanity don’t […] have time to Brylcreem their hair, and they wouldn’t waste the money. Damn straight! That ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2006, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/58 "2006-02-03T09:12:32Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Damn straight! That ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. 😛 😃 Unfortunately, I fear that, like the poor, televangelists are always with us. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/59 "2006-02-04T02:56:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, then. So, you know any races of superior beings looking for recruits ? It’s not like I have any choice what species I belong to, unless you were arguing I should suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112/60 "2006-02-04T02:58:29Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Religion is a con. There are no Great Sky Fairies. So you say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fresh-from-the-sunday-paper-what-a-clusterf-ck-literally/342112.md?page=2)