# Friday night, $2,000 at the casino **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 27, 2025, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555 "2025-04-27T06:39:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/61 "2025-04-28T19:07:31Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > This is what tells me it’s an addiction. We logically know that machines aren’t “due”, but the addiction tells us that if one just plays long enough, it will all be okay when it finally comes back our way. One sees the same behavior in those who routinely pay the idiot tax\* (e.g.: Mega Millions or Powerball), going so far as trying to mathematically work out the next set of numbers. \*My brother’s term for multi-/state lotteries, which I also pay on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/62 "2025-04-28T19:36:43Z")
At first I thought the idea of a machine telling you when it was close to payout was bullshit, based on my years of gambling back around 2000-2010. But after some research, it appears that there are indeed newer “persistent” slot machines that have such a feature. There are a couple of problems in taking advantage of such machines, though: first, > some machines that appear to have “persistent” bonuses and jackpots actually don’t. Slot makers realize players like the idea of having an edge, so they’re designing games with bowls of coins, pigs that swell and firecrackers that simulate persistent bonuses, but don’t actually do anything. They’re for show. I suppose knowledgeable player may know which machines are really persistent and which are faking it. Second, it seems that casinos are cracking down on the vultures, not because they lose the casino money (the games are of course designed to favor the casino in the long run no matter who gets the payouts), but because they effectively steal money from other players. Last year, MGM Grand canceled comps for a bunch of players that they identified as being vultures. [https://www.casino.org/vitalvegas/casinos-are-cracking-down-on-slot-vultures-reasons-may-surprise-you/](https://www.casino.org/vitalvegas/casinos-are-cracking-down-on-slot-vultures-reasons-may-surprise-you/) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/63 "2025-04-28T19:46:06Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Are you aware that until you press the button, the slot machine has made no determination of the outcome of the next spin? Machines don’t become “due”, “have imminent payout because they are full”, or anything of that nature. A machine that just paid out the max win has the exact same odds of doing so on the next spin as a machine that hasn’t paid out the max despite collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars in bets since the last max payout. This is correct. The machine itself doesn’t know what its next outcome will be before someone “pulls the handle” - it is a random variable governed by a probability distribution function. (I am using antiquated terminology for simplicity purposes.) And from what I’ve read, one variable in its algorithm is the precise _time_ the handle is pulled, and the resolution is at the microsecond level. Say, for example, Jane walks up to a slot machine, inserts a coin, and pulls the handle. She wins $100. Now let’s go back in time about 20 seconds and assume she _didn’t_ walk up to the machine. Instead, Bob walks up to the machine, inserts a coin, and pulls the handle. Does this mean Bob will win $100? No - he will probably lose his money. And the reason is because the precise _time_ Bob pulls the handle will be different than the precise _time_ Jane pulls the handle. The people who design modern gaming machines have thought of everything. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/64 "2025-04-28T20:28:53Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Also, a decent comparison should really be the price of rooms and food in **places not attached to a casino** - because I’m just going to assume the prices in that context are inflated above normal. Actually, I would tend to assume the opposite. A hotel not attached to a casino is only going to make money off you when you check in. One attached to a casino might accept lower profit margins on the rooms and food, because they hope to make it up in what you’ll gamble away. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/65 "2025-04-28T20:57:03Z")
While the odds of hitting a jackpot might be the same for any pull, the return and therefore the EV can differ, especially for those machines with progressive jackpots. Here’s a greatly oversimplified example just to demonstrate the concept. Imagine a $1 machine with a 1% chance of hitting the jackpot. When you hit the jackpot, you get $50 plus 80% of everything put in the machine since the last jackpot. On your first pull, you pay $1 for a 1% chance to win $50. One time out of a 100 you win $50, and 99 times you lose a dollar for an EV of -$0.49. After 10 pulls, you now have a 1% chance to win $58, for an EV of -$0.41. On your 63rd pull, you have a 1% chance to win $99.60, so a positive EV of a penny. After 200 pulls, the pot is $210 for an EV of $1.11 on your $1 bet. Real progressive slots rarely reach a positive EV, if ever. The casinos can adjust the returns, someone usually hits it before it goes positive, and even if it did, it’s still more likely any one player would burn through their bank before hitting it. When the OP says he’s waiting until it’s a positive EV, he just means he’s waiting until it’s not quite as negative (no matter what he thinks the odds are). ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/66 "2025-04-28T21:38:53Z")
Each spin on Vegas slots are independently random. Their RTP is determined by simulating a bajillion rounds and when active do not need to seek out their correct RTP. The extra bonuses gained from the kind of fill up features MWDG is talking about don’t affect the RTP of the main game. Each $1 might on average contribute 5c to the fillup, 85c to the main game RTP and 10c to the house. The independently random model is also now the default for slots in the UK, most video slots are not compensated and the old physical reel machines are mostly gone. ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/67 "2025-04-29T12:55:59Z")
Much like the OP, I enjoy gambling but poker instead. For me it’s been most enjoyable playing at a friend’s house once a month for a few hands. I know that I’m never entirely satisfied with doing anything just a couple times so decide ahead of time to play through two hands. My three friends from my youth understand that I just have to cut myself short each time. There’s a professional card room in the same block as me. I’ve decided not to go there because no one leaves after just two or three hands. My point is maybe the OP could find some friends who gamble occasionally but do other things as well. My friends are into other shared experiences too so it’s not just about gambling. I know of course that most gamblers are not like that together. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/68 "2025-04-29T13:29:55Z")
I wouldn’t - there might be some particular circumstances/dates where the casino room is less expensive ( for example, if they have some sort of convention) even if you aren’t getting some kind of comp ( even a partial one) but whenever I have checked room prices in AC, the casinos are more expensive. They’re about $70/night more than the Best Western/Days Inn down the block. Same for the food. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/69 "2025-04-29T14:06:52Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#): > > If it weren’t for the comped rooms I live in and freeplay coupons, I would stop going to casinos and never look back. Somewhere, a casino owner is rubbing his hands together, saying “Excellent… Just as planned!” Seriously, those comped rooms and Freeplay coupons? The casino gives you those because they know you’ll pay them back, and more, when you use them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/70 "2025-04-29T14:12:06Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#): > > Certain slots within the last two decades or so have some kind of “tell” that you’re approaching a bonus round. Like the slot I was playing friday night. That red column was about a foot long and less than one centimeter from the top. If that would to be an older slot, that column would’ve striked the top within 20 spins probably. And maybe $50 into the machine. No way it would’ve taken in $2K and still not strike. ??? This is incomprehensible to me. Why on Earth would you assume that the red bar means _anything_, much less “spin me no more than 20 times and you’ll win the jackpot”? Why on Earth would a slot machine be designed to give away that kind of information? Why would whoever got it filled up to the point it was at have left if they were just a couple spins from a guaranteed big win? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/71 "2025-04-29T14:16:11Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#): > > My “gambling” is a side hustle and I get comped free rooms. I essentially live in hotel rooms. I cant just quit. Granted, I have not made a lot of money, but I wouldn’t say that the money won was insignificant. I guarantee you that not only is the money you make, in the long term, going to be a lot less than the money you spend, but also that the amount you lose will end up being greater than it would have cost you to get housing some other way. I can guarantee this because there are hundreds of Casinos in America, many of which rake in millions upon millions of dollars, and their business model relies on leeching from people like you. We can look at people with business models like yours, and what their success is like, and compare that to the success of casinos. It’s not a pretty picture. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/72 "2025-04-29T14:19:29Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Have you actually worked out the precise amount? > Every gambling addict I’ve spoken to has said things like: > > - they don’t actually lose money > - they make a small profit > - they can afford to keep playing > > Sadly the addicts still say these things even when they have lost their house, their job or their marriage. I went to a casino floor with one of my inlaws when we were on a cruise. He put $200 into the machine. He added $20 at _least_ five or six times. Finally, he won $400. When we met up with my mother in law, he told her, “I put in $200 and now I’m up to $400, so I’m ahead”. I don’t even think he was lying. I think he genuinely cannot judge how much he puts into the slots. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/73 "2025-04-29T14:21:21Z")
Back in the 1990s I worked with a woman who was addicted to lottery tickets. She would bring them to work, and scratch them off during lunch. Her and another coworker were talking about it one day, and I overheard her telling him, “Oh, but I win more than I lose!” She was delusional, of course. This is also true for slot players who make the same claim. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/74 "2025-04-29T14:23:28Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#): > > You guys seem to keep ignoring that I BONUS CHASE. I only play games that are in the +EV state. Considering how a slot machine’s sole purpose is to trick you into putting more money in than you get out, and considering how multiple casinos manage to operate profitably, it seems to me like you’re placing _far_ too much faith in the information slot machines choose to communicate to you. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/75 "2025-04-29T14:27:27Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I find casinos to be extremely depressing places. When I went to Vegas for 5 days, I spent a grand total of 3 hours gambling in a casino. I’ve even forgotten which one. It’s kind of cool when you go in because of all the whirling lights and sounds, etc. After 3 hours, though, I had enough. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/76 "2025-04-29T14:30:40Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#): > > Everyone, before we discuss my gaming from now on please google ///advantage play///. Hell, there’s youtube videos if you want to see demonstrations. There are also YouTube videos demonstrating that the Earth is flat, my dude. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/77 "2025-04-29T14:32:13Z")
There’s really only one way to make money on slot machines- and the player has little control over it. Here it is - spend very little money on gambling. Be one of those people who takes a bus trip once a month and never spends more than the free play that comes along with the bus ticket. Win a fairly big jackpot (say $20K) and _keep being the person who takes a bus trip once a month and never spends more than the free play._ ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/78 "2025-04-29T14:59:03Z")
[quote=“Babale, post:71, topic:1017555, full:true”] > [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#): > > I can guarantee this because there are hundreds of Casinos in America, many of which rake in millions upon millions of dollars, and their business model relies on leeching from people like you. Correction, they rake in millions & millions _& millions_ of dollars. Think about all of the expenses of a casino - mortgage, utilities, salaries (probably a minimum of 18 hrs a day, depending upon your jurisdiction), security (all those camera ain’t cheap), supplies, limos & other comps for the ~~whales~~ biggest suckers. Once they pay off those expenses, they still have extraordinarily high tax bills because the state wants their ‘fair’ share, too…& only then do the owners get their millions & millions in profits. ---
**Author:** ![MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ec9cab/32.png) [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MW_Degen_Gamblr)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/79 "2025-04-29T15:00:53Z")
It’s always the least experienced people who are the most opinionated. This thread is no exception. In this thread: People who have not played a slot machine since 1998 are schooling me (who goes to casinos almost everyday) on how they work. Educate yourself about “advantage play”. I don’t understand the refusal to acknowledge such. Hell, if you don’t trust me, do your own research. I already provided some ideas. But you can go off and find even more stuff and get deeper into the rabbit hole. If there was no such thing as “advantage play”, “APers” wouldn’t get kicked out of casinos. Dig deep enough you’ll find that info. If CASINO MANAGEMENT acknowledges and complains about such, the practice must exist. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555/80 "2025-04-29T15:06:19Z")
> [@MW\_Degen\_Gamblr](#): > > “APers” wouldn’t get kicked out of casinos. Thanks to the article @markn_1 posted, I now know they are appropriately called “slot vultures”. You claim you have figured out how to avoid the casinos from learning you are a slot vulture. Are other slot vultures starting to use this trick? What will happen when the casinos figure out your simple trick? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friday-night-2-000-at-the-casino/1017555.md?page=5)