# Friend A asks you to persuadeFriend B not to break their engagement. Do you try? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 26, 2018, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140 "2018-04-26T04:56:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/21 "2018-04-26T18:41:57Z")
My only possibly valuable contribution to the thread is this: Anyone sure of the right answer is wrong. Anyone thinking it’s an open-and-shut case on either side, is wrong. Anyone thinking they even understand the situation from reading the OP is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/22 "2018-04-26T18:55:46Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Why is Lindsay’s sexual history any of Josh’s business? :dubious: Completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. If she thinks it’s none of his business, then the honest thing to do would have been to simply state that she doesn’t wish to talk about her history, not to lie to him about it. It’s certainly possible that Josh would decide not to date her if she took the attitude that she simply wouldn’t discuss it, but “this person wouldn’t date/bang/etc. me if I told them the truth” isn’t a justification for lying. Note that if it was a case of he didn’t ask and she didn’t tell, there wouldn’t be any deception and my answer would be significantly different. But in the OP, she clearly gave a false ‘confession’ to Josh about some nude modeling, then hoped to get Josh trapped in a marriage before he found out the truth. That’s not a minor thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sveltington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@Sveltington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sveltington)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/23 "2018-04-26T19:06:15Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m voting to not try to dissuade Josh. I feel that **Sveltington** ’s comments, while being overly harsh, cannot be dismissed out of hand.\* > > Lindsay probably needs to go back for more therapy. Perhaps some unexplored part of her psyche needs to be examined to determine why she chose a man whose emotional rigidity would make him unable to accept her after learning that her past includes events, however grotesque, in which she allowed herself to be hurt. > > Of _course_ Lindsay has a past; and of _course_ her past includes events which she has not shared with Josh (and which she has not shared with me). The questions are: do I have a line beyond which I cannot accept that Lindsay is a treasure of a friend; and if so, where is that line (these questions also apply to Josh, of course)?\*\* Is there any literature that guides therapists in advising their patients/clients in when and how to reveal details of their pasts to their SOs? ISTM that if there isn’t, there should be (of course, if there is, I haven’t read it. Which isn’t surprising, as I’m not a therapist). > > Anyway, I’m sorry, Lindsay. I like to think that my affection for you is so deep that I would never refuse you anything, and it hurts my heart that I can’t comply with this request. I just feel I wouldn’t be doing you any favors if I succeeded in doing this for you. Because from what I know of Josh, even if he did change his mind, he would feel entitled to win every future disagreement with you for the rest of your lives, and would probably bring this up as a weapon each time. > > \*For that matter, it occurs to me that **Sveltington** would not feel that comfortable accepting the personality trait the OP has assigned us, which calls for us to find that we “generally like [Josh], but staying around him can be a trial.” > > \*\*Both the position and the brightness of that line are probably going to vary based on other factors, including: how long ago was the event before she met me; and, how long did it take for her to acquaint me with the facts about the event? I find it perfectly comfortable that Josh can be difficult and I like him anyway. Some people I know IRL are prickly and intractable. As much as I adored Lindsay I find it unacceptable that she would not tell, before marriage, Josh something this huge (porn video.) She does not ever have to share with anyone that she was molested; unless it is part of her healing process. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/24 "2018-04-26T19:28:33Z")
In this situation, I’m not getting involved because I’m not friends with Josh anymore after this. Anyone willing to judge someone that harshly for engaging in sex work is no longer a friend of mine. > [@Sveltington](#): > > A lifetime partnership demands complete honesty. This is so wrong it makes my head hurt. Complete honesty will kill a partnership dead, tact is part of the social lubricant that makes relationships possible. Have you actually been in a long-term relationship? > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I feel that **Sveltington** ’s comments, while being overly harsh, cannot be dismissed out of hand. I disagree, and have completely dismissed his comments out of hand as complete misogynistic garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/25 "2018-04-26T19:35:49Z")
No. If he can’t get over this on his own, it could have long term negative consequences to both of them. I mean, if you could do it in a completely persuasive, non pressuring way, which you knew,\* for sure,\* completely eliminated future doubt and resentfulness on his end, I guess. But if we’re talking about a real life scenario where you _can’t_ know the future, no. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/26 "2018-04-26T19:40:16Z")
Yeah, I think I’d talk to Josh. But what exactly I would say depends on how he responds. Initially, I’d just say something along the lines of “I heard you’re breaking off the engagement. What’s up with that?” From there, how much I would encourage him and what I would say would really depend on his answers. For example, if it becomes clear that he loves her and wants the marriage, but is scared, I’d try to walk him through his fears, ask him what he’s afraid of and try to show him that marrying Lindsay would be a good thing and aligns with what he wants out of life. But if it becomes apparent that he was looking for a reason to escape and Lindsay’s history provided a convenient excuse, then I’d back off. Etc. But considering that (a) Lindsay has specifically asked me for help, and (b) I am Josh’s best friend, I do think it would be appropriate to talk to Josh. At the very, VERY least I can approach Josh and back off if he says he doesn’t want to talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![K2500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f6c823/32.png) [@K2500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K2500)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/27 "2018-04-26T19:52:44Z")
I’m assuming calling off the marriage is the same as calling off the entire relationship? I’d avoid intervening in their relationship entirely Except to say, if the opportunity to have a conversation with either one of them on the standalone topics of acceptance or honesty, ect, I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand but would tread very carefully. Hiding what you know to be dealbreakers from prospective spouses doesn’t exactly build trust. Then getting married to a person who would break the deal so quickly might also be a pretty bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/28 "2018-04-26T19:56:32Z")
I wouldn’t try to talk anyone into anything. I would feel sympathy for Lindsay, but I’m not going to blame Josh for refusing to trust someone who has lied to him. His emotional rigidity is his own deal. I can decide if that’s a dealbreaker for my friendship with him, but I can’t decide that I’m going to overcome it in favor of a friend who really needs to learn to fight her own battles. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/29 "2018-04-26T21:10:59Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Why is Lindsay’s sexual history any of Josh’s business? :dubious: In that case, why is anything about anyone’s past ever anyone else’s business? If I was your new friend, and I had murdered someone in the past and done time for it, would you agree all that was none of your business, and the fact I never mentioned anything about it was also none of your business? ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/30 "2018-04-26T21:36:44Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > If I was your new friend, and I had murdered someone in the past and done time for it, would you agree all that was none of your business, and the fact I never mentioned anything about it was also none of your business? Are you seriously arguing that someone acting in an adult film is the same morally as someone who commits murder, and deserves to get treated the same way? Because if you want to go down that road, I’m going to have to take this to the pit. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/31 "2018-04-26T21:51:08Z")
I’d stay out of it, mainly for one reason… What else hasn’t she told him? Get involved in this one and what happens if in a few months or years some other skeleton jumps out of the closet and changes the situation again? Fuck that, they are adults and can sort it out between themselves, to whatever end. ---
**Author:** ![K2500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f6c823/32.png) [@K2500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K2500)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/32 "2018-04-26T21:54:28Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > In that case, why is anything about anyone’s past ever anyone else’s business? > > If I was your new friend, and I had murdered someone in the past and done time for it, would you agree all that was none of your business, and the fact I never mentioned anything about it was also none of your business? New friend or new fiancé(e)? ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/33 "2018-04-26T22:04:28Z")
I would find time head over to Josh’s place with a twelve pack for a night of commiseration. I _might_ ask him if he’s thought this through and is willing to throw the whole thing away over something that happened years ago, but I would _definitely not_ try to convince him to put the engagement back on. If he can’t get past it, I don’t think it’ll be good for him to turn a blind eye to it. This is likely to be one of those situations where no one is happy and everyone loses. It sucks, but real life can be like that sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/34 "2018-04-26T22:05:23Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > In that case, why is anything about anyone’s past ever anyone else’s business? > > If I was your new friend, and I had murdered someone in the past and done time for it, would you agree all that was none of your business, and the fact I never mentioned anything about it was also none of your business? ’ This has got to be the most absurd false equivalence I’ve ever read on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Sveltington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@Sveltington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sveltington)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/35 "2018-04-26T23:21:49Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > In this situation, I’m not getting involved because I’m not friends with Josh anymore after this. Anyone willing to judge someone that harshly for engaging in sex work is no longer a friend of mine. > > This is so wrong it makes my head hurt. Complete honesty will kill a partnership dead, tact is part of the social lubricant that makes relationships possible. Have you actually been in a long-term relationship? > > I disagree, and have completely dismissed his comments out of hand as complete misogynistic garbage. Hey Crazy, FTR I am a female Yes I am in a long-term relationship. I am referring to PRE-WEDDING honesty. If you are not concerned about your partners\* previous sexual encounters then I think you are very naive or very reckless. When I think porn I think John Holmes. \*and future mother or father of your children ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/36 "2018-04-26T23:52:02Z")
Of course a past, any past is important to the one you are going to marry. Honesty is best. What is this Dynasty or All my Children? This is real life, your partner and you should be forthcoming and truthful. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/37 "2018-04-27T00:05:30Z")
I’d tell Josh he’s straight up being an asshole about a matter that deeply hurts Lindsay and this is not something to do to someone you love, so make a damned choice. Step back and look at the matter a little more objectively and respectfully, or blow up your damned life because you’re going to lose most of your friends. And I wouldn’t mention anyone talking to me or asking for my help. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/38 "2018-04-27T01:09:50Z")
> [@Sveltington](#): > > Hey Crazy, > > FTR I am a female > > Yes I am in a long-term relationship. I am referring to PRE-WEDDING honesty. If you are not concerned about your partners\* previous sexual encounters then I think you are very naive or very reckless. When I think porn I think John Holmes. > > \*and future mother or father of your children I believe the OP says that Lindsay was about 19 at the time she did porn and that yythe referenced incident was her last shoot, and I know it says she is 30 years old. So more than a decade has passed. I would say it is safe to CERT that she has no lingering diseases or other such physical issues from her brief career. Moreover — and I’m not saying anyone with except this — but since I specified that concealing the porn career from him was the loan area where she had not behaved sensibly, It seems to me that accusing her of the sort of general malfeasance you did in your initial post is uncalled for. I’m not sure whether it was you or someone else (and my visual disability makes checking difficult), but I am also not sure it is right to call her a liar for not telling Josh about the porn. Porn performers are often described as models, so saying she did some nude modeling is literally true. Unless he pressed her to describe the sort of things she did, I can easily imagine that saying that was honest enough. And I don’t agree that she had any particular obligation to go Into detail about it; certainly not about the mollis station by her funny uncle. Answering my own question from the OP: I would hesitate to get into the dispute between the two of them, but I would almost certainly be on her side. And if I knew that Lindsay had told no outright lies, I would be definitely on her side. The fact that Josh seems to think she had an obligation to tell him about the childhood molestation in particular would be very troubling to me. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/39 "2018-04-27T02:20:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m not sure whether it was you or someone else (and my visual disability makes checking difficult), but I am also not sure it is right to call her a liar for not telling Josh about the porn. Porn performers are often described as models, so saying she did some nude modeling is literally true. Unless he pressed her to describe the sort of things she did, I can easily imagine that saying that was honest enough. And I don’t agree that she had any particular obligation to go Into detail about it; certainly not about the mollis station by her funny uncle. I’m the one who called her a liar for lying about her past career. And yes, telling someone a partial truth that you know they’ll interpret in a way contrary to what really happened is lying, even if you try to hide behind ‘well what I said is literally true’. Hiding behind ‘well he didn’t press me, he just trusted me and accepted that my answer was true instead of hounding me about it,’ sounds to me like she’s saying ‘I’ll just lie unless someone really thinks I’m a liar and keeps pressing until I crack’. Also, the fact that he’s bothered by what she said makes it clear to me that she absolutely wasn’t ‘honest enough’. It’s pretty likely that she knew this would likely be a dealbreaker, and she tried to hide it long enough to get him hooked in to her with a wedding. Seriously, your justifications here make me think much worse of Lindsay, because they are the kind of excuses and justifications a habitual liar hides behind. I assumed this was just a one-off in my original response, that she felt something like ‘this was too upsetting for me to talk about’, not that she felt ‘well my web of deception could technically be called true’ or ‘he didn’t treat me like a liar often enough for me to tell the truth’. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140/40 "2018-04-27T07:20:09Z")
> [@Sveltington](#): > > Hey Crazy, > > FTR I am a female > > Yes I am in a long-term relationship. I am referring to PRE-WEDDING honesty. If you are not concerned about your partners\* previous sexual encounters then I think you are very naive or very reckless. When I think porn I think John Holmes. > > \*and future mother or father of your children If your concerned about STDs, there’s only one way to set your mind at ease. And that’s for the both of you to go get checked for STDs. Talking about your sexual history solves nothing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-a-asks-you-to-persuadefriend-b-not-to-break-their-engagement-do-you-try/813140.md?page=3)