# Friend w cancer. Should i inform his estranged daughter? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899 "2012-12-23T04:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/61 "2012-12-26T19:03:34Z")
Another vote for getting permission before barging in and mucking about in a dying man’s personal affairs. You may wind up making things harder for him even though you are trying to help. If he wants your help, then sure, why not? The children are adults and are capable of telling you to fuck off and good riddance, if it suits them. Be prepared for a less flattering portrayal of the guy you’ve been helping. > [@al27052](#): > > Deal with an estate mess once or twice. You’ll change your tune, I guarantee. Can you elaborate on this? I know a guy who has an estranged relative, although one who is unlikely to have any assets worth inheriting. What bad things can happen to the next of kin when someone dies? You mentioned lawyer’s fees, among other things. > [@duchessofdork](#): > > I’m a little concerned that you say you’re looking at the pages of the daughter’s friends and trying to figure out where she works. > > I think you need to back off. Yes, this. If a stranger told me he’d been internet stalking me based on his peripheral involvement in an estranged relative’s life, my first thought would be “What kind of scam is this joker running?”. My second thought would be “Has this dude been rummaging through my underwear drawer while I’m out?” ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/62 "2012-12-27T04:11:30Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Can you elaborate on this? I know a guy who has an estranged relative, although one who is unlikely to have any assets worth inheriting. What bad things can happen to the next of kin when someone dies? You mentioned lawyer’s fees, among other things. A lot depends on state inheritance law, which varies WIDELY. In general, there are three things that are guaranteed to cause years-long headaches: 1. dying intestate, i.e., without a will. This is no big deal when there are no assets. USUALLY. 2. dying when there’s real estate involved. Even when there’s a will, this can get messy, ESPECIALLY when there are multiple heirs. 3. Dying with an underwater mortgage, although I’ve never seen it happen, has got to be at least twice as bad as #2. There’s even a recent thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=669803&highlight=sued](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=669803&highlight=sued) about a potential heir whose parent died with a mortgage that was going into foreclosure. The bank is suing every potential heir. It’s a _giant fucking mess_. Stuff like that is why I say that the kids need to be told. The hell with feelings. The father needs to short sell or do a deed in lieu of foreclosure, make sure he has a current will, settle all his debts, and rent an apartment. The kids also need to decide who’s paying for funeral expenses. Even if he recovers from the cancer, he still needs to do everything I just said. I don’t think the kids should be told until he’s within a couple months of dying. However, at that point, it’s the OP’s duty. It’s also the OP’s duty to make sure the old man has done everything I said. Dying intestate, especially with real estate, ESPECIALLY with not-fully-paid-off real estate involved, is a real curse on your family. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/63 "2012-12-27T04:29:21Z")
But it isn’t the OPs family. Why should he get so deeply involved in their family affairs? It seems like a recipe for disaster. Especially saying he should “make sure” the guy has his ducks in a row, that isn’t the OPs place nor is it his “duty” as you put it. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/64 "2012-12-27T04:48:57Z")
Havent forgot about you all…its been busy with far away relatives staying here, plus hit by winter storm euclid. My plan is to wait till he tells me about the results of the extended CT scan of lungs on Dec 29…plan is to ask if his kids know yet, and listen. Not suggest nor offer. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/65 "2012-12-27T04:50:52Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > **cougar** , I like you fine (so far as I know) and I am sorry that my last post has an angry tone, but the arrogance of people who don’t mind their own beeswax really grinds my gears. You are OK. ---
**Author:** ![Curiosity\_Kills\_Her](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Curiosity\_Kills\_Her](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Curiosity_Kills_Her)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/66 "2012-12-27T05:03:40Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Click on your messages, in your main navigation bar on the left hand side of your main page. This will show you your main inbox. Over on the left again, next to where it says “Inbox” it should say “Other.” Click on Other, that’s the folder. Whoa. I’m more popular with people I don’t know than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_I\_Am](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Sam\_I\_Am](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_I_Am)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/67 "2012-12-27T21:13:08Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > A lot depends on state inheritance law, which varies WIDELY. In general, there are three things that are guaranteed to cause years-long headaches: > > 1. dying intestate, i.e., without a will. This is no big deal when there are no assets. USUALLY. > > 2. dying when there’s real estate involved. Even when there’s a will, this can get messy, ESPECIALLY when there are multiple heirs. > > 3. Dying with an underwater mortgage, although I’ve never seen it happen, has got to be at least twice as bad as #2. > > There’s even a recent thread > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=669803&highlight=sued](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=669803&highlight=sued) > > about a potential heir whose parent died with a mortgage that was going into foreclosure. The bank is suing every potential heir. It’s a _giant fucking mess_. > > Stuff like that is why I say that the kids need to be told. The hell with feelings. The father needs to short sell or do a deed in lieu of foreclosure, make sure he has a current will, settle all his debts, and rent an apartment. The kids also need to decide who’s paying for funeral expenses. Even if he recovers from the cancer, he still needs to do everything I just said. > > I don’t think the kids should be told until he’s within a couple months of dying. However, at that point, it’s the OP’s duty. > > It’s also the OP’s duty to make sure the old man has done everything I said. Dying intestate, especially with real estate, ESPECIALLY with not-fully-paid-off real estate involved, is a real curse on your family. But your list is all things that the father needs to do, not the kids. (total disclosure) As one who is estranged from both my parents, it would be pointless for me to know ahead of time if either of them were dying. If we had a good relationship where I could prevail on them to do the right things, like take care of your list, we wouldn’t be estranged in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/68 "2012-12-28T00:41:46Z")
> [@Sam\_I\_Am](#): > > But your list is all things that the father needs to do, not the kids. > > (total disclosure) As one who is estranged from both my parents, it would be pointless for me to know ahead of time if either of them were dying. If we had a good relationship where I could prevail on them to do the right things, like take care of your list, we wouldn’t be estranged in the first place. You are right, it’s a list of things for the father. However, if the father doesn’t have the money to pay for the funeral, SOMEbody is going to have to. Speaking of that, the father needs to plan his own funeral ahead of time and make all the arrangements, and hopefully pay for it. He owes his kids that much. I seriously doubt the kids would prefer to find out AFTER the fact that their father is dead. At least a little advance warning is nice. And the way I see it is, the OP doesn’t care if he gets chewed out by the kids for contacting them. I certainly wouldn’t give a damn whether they chewed me out. They need telling, if the father is close to death, and that’s that. It’s ESPECIALLY true if he hasn’t gotten his affairs in order yet. The worst thing that can happen here is that the father dies with no will, an underwater mortgage, no assets, and an unplanned, unpaid-for funeral…with the kids knowing nothing beforehand of any of it. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/69 "2012-12-28T00:44:33Z")
I am still not understanding why any debts incurred by a parent would be their children’s responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/70 "2012-12-28T02:33:28Z")
I read as far as the post by **lavenderviolet** (28) and I agree with it. Whether you tell the relatives or not **is** now your problem. You are in no way responsible for the what other people think about your decision and cannot influence the results of your decision. However you now know what you know and you have to decide what to do with the knowledge. If you can happily do nothing then that is a viable alternative. If, however, you are going to spend the rest of your life, tormented by the fact that you think you should have done something different, then doing nothing is not a viable alternative. It would be nice to come up with a solution that causes no pain to anyone but you are an innocent bystander in this and should take great care to ensure that any solution doesn’t transfer someone else’s misery to you. I can’t tell you what would make you feel satisfied, but if it was me I think I would contact the daughter, let her know that he is dying and offer to act as an intermediary if she needed to contact her father without personal contact. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/71 "2012-12-28T02:36:48Z")
But he isn’t dying. He has a positive prognosis IIRC, that is pretty darn good for cancer. If she really hates her father, it would be a disappointment if he pulled though and survived after you told her he was dying. I would be pretty pissed if I was her to have my emotions again twisted and controlled by the father I purposely cut out of my life. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/72 "2012-12-29T02:53:36Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I am still not understanding why any debts incurred by a parent would be their children’s responsibility. Yeah, they’d probably take it out of the estate. I don’t think you can legally inherit debt, can you? At the very least, why hasn’t the OP even bothered to ask his friend about it? If he wants to contact his kids, let him do it himself. In fact, have you considered the possibility that he’s already tried to contact them? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/73 "2012-12-29T04:09:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Yeah, they’d probably take it out of the estate. I don’t think you can legally inherit debt, can you? > > At the very least, why hasn’t the OP even bothered to ask his friend about it? If he wants to contact his kids, let him do it himself. In fact, have you considered the possibility that he’s already tried to contact them? As far as I know, unless you co-signed a loan or your name is on a contract, house note, or car note, I don’t see how a child would be legally responsible for a parent’s debts. That isn’t to say the debt collectors won’t try, but they legally have no recourse AFAIK. > [@](#): > > Generally children or family members are not responsible for a parent’s debts but it is important to know your rights since collection agencies often target a decedent’s children or relatives. Normally the estate of the parent is responsible for paying any debts of the parent. If the estate does not have enough money, the debts will go unpaid. Children are not even required to assist the collection agency or provide information to the collection agency with respect to a claim unless they are the legally appointed personal representative or executor. Collection agencies may not attempt to collect debts from children or other relatives unless the children were cosigners or guarantors. > > If a debt collector contacts you with respect to a parent’s debt, give the debt collector the name of your parents personal representative or executor. If an executor has not been appointed, or you have no involvement in the matter, tell the debt collector that you are not involved with the matter and ask that they not call you again. [http://cooperelderlaw.com/asset-protection/children-responsible-for-parents-debts-following-parents-death/](http://cooperelderlaw.com/asset-protection/children-responsible-for-parents-debts-following-parents-death/) ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/74 "2012-12-29T04:15:19Z")
In fact, if a child doesn’t want to be involved at all in any of the funeral planning, estate planning, or any home involved they don’t have to I assume. As harsh as that sounds, they can wash their hands of the whole thing and not get involved at all. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/75 "2012-12-29T04:21:31Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > In fact, if a child doesn’t want to be involved at all in any of the funeral planning, estate planning, or any home involved they don’t have to I assume. As harsh as that sounds, they can wash their hands of the whole thing and not get involved at all. for example: > [@](#): > > The answer to this question depends on the laws of the state in which the death occurred; therefore, no single answer can be given here. It may be generally stated that funeral expenses become the responsibility of the person who makes the arrangements with the undertaker. That person signs the contract, which routinely provides that that person is responsible for payment. > > Even though the person making the arrangements is ultimately personally liable for the expenses, state laws permit a reasonable amount of funeral expense to be charged against the estate. If the arranger contracts for too elaborate a funeral, beneficiaries would be permitted to object to the full expense being charged to the estate. If a court disallows the entire expense out of the estate, the person who made the arrangements would be personally liable to the funeral director for the excess over what the court deems to be reasonable. > > For indigent decedents, states will have explicit laws governing imposition of funeral expenses upon persons who do not make the arrangements themselves. > > As an example of one statutory system, in New Jersey, if no one comes forward to make arrangements, the deceased is considered an unclaimed body. The county government in which the body is located will bury the body and charge the decedent’s estate with the costs. > > If the decedent left no estate, the county will bury the body and the cost will be paid in the following manner: 1. If the decedent is an adult leaving a surviving spouse, the spouse will pay the cost; or 2. If the decedent is an unemancipated minor leaving a parent, the parent will pay the cost; or 3. if in the cases above, there is no surviving spouse or parent, the county will simply pay the cost of the burial. > > Thus, at least in New Jersey, if the children do not make the arrangements themselves, they are not responsible to pay for the funeral expenses. Of course that means that they are abandoning the parent’s body and they have no say in how the body is buried or cremated. > **[Are children responsible for paying funeral expenses? - Answers](https://www.answers.com/death-and-dying/Are_children_responsible_for_paying_funeral_expenses)** > > The answer to this question depends on the laws of the state in > which the death occurred; therefore, no single answer can be given > here. It may be generally stated that funeral expenses become the > responsibility of the person who makes the... ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/76 "2012-12-29T07:13:36Z")
I suppose that if the kids REALLY don’t want ANYTHING to do with the funeral, estate, belongings, etc., then there’s no reason to contact them. However, I’m not sure that’s a given here, and personally, if I were the OP, and the father actually was close to death, I’d feel like a jerk if I didn’t give the kids some advance warning of the death, etc… But beyond all that, the much more important issue at hand is making sure the father has his affairs in order. Whoever can make him do that needs to, if he’s not not willing to force himself to do it. If that’s the kids, whatever. It needs doing. I personally would not want debt collectors suing me over an unpaid mortgage, which DEFINITELY happens to heirs/descendants. The idea that the kids would rather have absolutely no notice of this situation until they receive the court summons regarding the lawsuit against them is fairly unlikely. And you know what? Even if that’s what the kids THINK they would want now, I bet you that they’d change their minds after dealing with the lawsuit. Nobody wants to get sued, if they can avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/77 "2012-12-29T16:03:47Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I suppose that if the kids REALLY don’t want ANYTHING to do with the funeral, estate, belongings, etc., then there’s no reason to contact them. > > However, I’m not sure that’s a given here, and personally, if I were the OP, and the father actually was close to death, I’d feel like a jerk if I didn’t give the kids some advance warning of the death, etc.. > > But beyond all that, the much more important issue at hand is making sure the father has his affairs in order. Whoever can make him do that needs to, if he’s not not willing to force himself to do it. If that’s the kids, whatever. It needs doing. > > I personally would not want debt collectors suing me over an unpaid mortgage, which DEFINITELY happens to heirs/descendants. > > The idea that the kids would rather have absolutely no notice of this situation until they receive the court summons regarding the lawsuit against them is fairly unlikely. And you know what? Even if that’s what the kids THINK they would want now, I bet you that they’d change their minds after dealing with the lawsuit. Nobody wants to get sued, if they can avoid it. They can sue all they want or threaten to sue, but there is no legal recourse for debt collectors to collect from descendents or heirs. They wouldn’t get a dime, and the children shouldn’t feel obligated to pay any debts their dad incurred. If you read my reference above, the debt collectors can threaten a lawsuit to try and scare you in to paying, but as a child of the decedent you would tell them to stop contacting you and you wouldn’t be responsible for anything. > [@](#): > > As long as [a child] didn’t co-sign the mortgage they are not responsible to pay a deceased parent’s mortgage. However, if the parents have died and their property is subject to a mortgage the lender will foreclose on the property if the mortgage isn’t paid. If the heirs want to keep or sell the property they must keep the mortgage payments current. > And no one but the father should be the one to get his affairs in order, and if someone wants to help they run the risk of being the responsible party when the guy dies. If the OP wants to get involved he might well be the one who signs any funeral arrangements and ends up being the one hounded by debt collectors. > **[Are adult children liable for parents mortgage debt? - Answers](https://www.answers.com/finance/Are_adult_children_liable_for_parents_mortgage_debt)** > > No, not as long as they didn't co-sign the mortgage. However, if > the parents have died and their property is subject to a mortgage > the lender will foreclose on the property if the mortgage isn't > paid. If the heirs want to keep or sell the property... ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/78 "2012-12-29T16:10:13Z")
I don’t know why you are dead set on harping on the lawsuit thing. It isn’t reality. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/79 "2012-12-29T16:54:12Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Deal with an estate mess once or twice. You’ll change your tune, I guarantee. We have one right now wrapping up. And it was my beloved brother in law (my husband’s brother), who we knew was dying and who never got his will done. Expensive pain in the back end. I’d wait and see what the prognosis is. If it is terminal, then I would inform. Because my brother in law didn’t want to admit he was dying, some people didn’t get an opportunity to see him while he was alive - they didn’t know, or they didn’t know how bad it was. There were a few people my brother in law didn’t want to see, but that doesn’t sound like its the case here. And I’d inform - your friend doesn’t want to face the possible rejection. And if the kids don’t care, then they don’t care. They’ll find out eventually that Dad has died or is dying. A girlfriend of mine had her mother run out on her at a young age. Later, doing genealogy, she found record of her death just a year before. She was really divided about it - had she found her while she was alive, would she have reached out? - she doesn’t know, but she didn’t have that choice because time took it from her. You can give the kids the choice. The choice they make is theirs. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899/80 "2012-12-30T03:48:14Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I don’t know why you are dead set on harping on the lawsuit thing. It isn’t reality. Did you not read the link I posted several posts ago? here it is again. You might want to actually READ the link: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...highlight=sued](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...highlight=sued) The smart money is on NOT getting sued in the FIRST place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friend-w-cancer-should-i-inform-his-estranged-daughter/644899.md?page=5)