# Friends with Benefits Boundaries? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265 "2010-11-19T21:10:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/21 "2010-11-22T01:31:00Z")
Huh. So, for some of you, is FWB like dating without the exclusivity? I just got out of a FWB relationship (we’re still F) and we always kissed before sex. I can’t imagine not kissing at least a little before sex. How else do you get the motor running? Groping and such? ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/22 "2010-11-22T07:11:24Z")
So, out of curiosity, when you’re saying “sex without kissing” are you talking about no kissing _on the mouth,_ or no kissing _at all?_ Because while I imagine sex-without-mouth-kissing would be largely unsatisfying, at least I can sort of understand the mechanics of it. But if there’s no kissing at all – not on the neck, chest, or other obvious erogenous zones – well, I just can’t figure out what the hell you’d DO with your mouth during that entire time. Yes, there’s oral (although I’d argue that involves kissing of erogenous zones too), but that leaves you with a rather limited repertoire. During PIV, do you… what, just stare at each other? Stare at the ceiling/pillow? Lie back and think of England? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/23 "2010-11-22T15:12:23Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Huh. So, for some of you, is FWB like dating without the exclusivity? Not for me. It’s a friend who I fuck. We happen to be exclusive, but nothing about the definition of that term to me means necessary (lack of) exclusivity. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/24 "2010-11-22T18:45:32Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I don’t know how people can have sex and _not_ kiss. YMMV. Happens all the time. In some ways, kissing is more intimate than fucking. ---
**Author:** ![taffygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@taffygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taffygirl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/25 "2010-11-22T18:50:08Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > So, out of curiosity, when you’re saying “sex without kissing” are you talking about no kissing _on the mouth,_ or no kissing _at all?_ Because while I imagine sex-without-mouth-kissing would be largely unsatisfying, at least I can sort of understand the mechanics of it. But if there’s no kissing at all – not on the neck, chest, or other obvious erogenous zones – well, I just can’t figure out what the hell you’d DO with your mouth during that entire time. Yes, there’s oral (although I’d argue that involves kissing of erogenous zones too), but that leaves you with a rather limited repertoire. During PIV, do you… what, just stare at each other? Stare at the ceiling/pillow? Lie back and think of England? 😕 Oh, definitely lie back and think of England!🙂 Basically, no kissing..lots of smiling and eye contact and…um…talk. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/26 "2010-11-22T22:13:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Happens all the time. In some ways, kissing is more intimate than fucking. Oh, I’m sure it happens but in my own personal experience, the two go hand in hand. Kissing before, during and after. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/27 "2010-11-22T22:35:01Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Oh, I’m sure it happens but in my own personal experience, the two go hand in hand. Kissing before, during and after. Bear in mind that I wrote _fucking_, not _making love_ (or even having sex). I suspect kissing is the exception rather than the rule in one-nighters. ---
**Author:** ![Rack-a-Bones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rack-a-Bones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rack-a-Bones)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/28 "2010-11-22T23:37:13Z")
My ex and I hang out socially, have some of the same friends and occasionally go catch a show or have dinner. We also occasionally have a nice romp in the hay which includes kissing and everything else. There is mutual affection for sure. I always assumed this was a FWB relationship but as I write this out it sounds more like an open relationship, but neither one of us has interest in ‘dating’ the other. So to answer the OP my experience has been we just go with the flow. Sometimes there is sex, sometimes not, usually kissing and groping and sometimes she/I just want a warm body next to us. Or sometimes just some company without any social pressure of a date. I guess there really isn’t a solid definition just an experience. The boundaries would be by mutual agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/29 "2010-11-23T00:56:53Z")
I don’t like mouth-kissing anymore. The last two partners I’ve had (first for 7mos and dating the second on-and-off for a month-ish) were extremely poor kissers. I tried to teach the second one but he still ended up defaulting to fat whale tongue, and now thinking about kissing kinda sicks me out. I’m content to stay single for the moment, or look into obtaining a booty call if the need arises in the future. No kissing will probably be a rule of mine from now on. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/30 "2010-11-23T01:00:58Z")
Before I was married this last time, I had several FWB. Many of them are still very good friends, though I would be lying if I said I didn’t miss the F part. But, as with all my friends, what they want comes first to me (this is a personality flaw that I am working on fixing). As with most relationships, I let the other person dictate the level of involvement. If she wants kissing, GREAT, if she doesn’t, well, I will be a bit sad, but I will not giving up a chance for a good F if I can’t get a kiss in the process. I don’t think I’ve ever had a Fuck Buddy. Those few that I could have had, ended up being friends too. Go figure! ---
**Author:** ![taffygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@taffygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taffygirl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/31 "2010-11-23T03:20:27Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I don’t like mouth-kissing anymore. The last two partners I’ve had (first for 7mos and dating the second on-and-off for a month-ish) were extremely poor kissers. I tried to teach the second one but he still ended up defaulting to fat whale tongue, and now thinking about kissing kinda sicks me out. > > I’m content to stay single for the moment, or look into obtaining a booty call if the need arises in the future. No kissing will probably be a rule of mine from now on. They must have been REALLY BAD kissers to turn you off permanently. :eek: Weren’t there any melt-your-lips kissers in your more distant past? If I were a guy, and I knew how much most women get turned on by kissing, I’d work on perfecting my technique night and day. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/32 "2010-11-23T03:34:21Z")
> [@taffygirl](#): > > They must have been REALLY BAD kissers to turn you off permanently. :eek: Weren’t there any melt-your-lips kissers in your more distant past? > > If I were a guy, and I knew how much most women get turned on by kissing, I’d work on perfecting my technique night and day. I’ve heard that a lot. Why are women particularly turned on by it\*? What does it bring? Why would women be more fond of it than men? \*Taking into account that some women don’t like it. It seems to be accepted that women like it more than men. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/33 "2010-11-23T03:47:32Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Not for me. It’s a friend who I fuck. We happen to be exclusive, but nothing about the definition of that term to me means necessary (lack of) exclusivity. Well for me, usually the major practical difference between dating someone and only being friends is the fucking. Other things that are different are the frequency of interaction and quality of interaction, as well as the amount of one-on-one time. So how are your dating relationships qualitatively different from your FWB relationships? ---
**Author:** ![Ura-Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Ura-Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ura-Maru)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/34 "2010-11-23T05:20:10Z")
> [@taffygirl](#): > > If I were a guy, and I knew how much most women get turned on by kissing, I’d work on perfecting my technique night and day. Grand mastery in this area is one of my life goals. Tutors can be difficult to find at times, though. The normal method of consulting some old Tibetan guy in a mountain hut turned out to be a **huge** mistake . . . > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Why are women particularly turned on by it\*? What does it bring? It brings a language, or maybe a (silent) soundtrack. It provides context to whatever else you’re feeling and doing. Playful, intense, worshipful, silly, hungry, teasing, pursuit, surrender, joy, and everything else. It also adds a set of sensations. The lips, tongue, face and neck are sensitive, and it forms a nice chord when mixed with whatever the genitals and hands are doing. (Also the ropes, in the ideal scenario) The additional contact area increases awareness of the whole body. Plus, it’s kind of fun for it’s own sake, and has nice, romantic connotations. And many women have ‘weak spots’ around the face, neck, ears, and throat, which are never going to be found unless looked for. He who holds the land, can conquer Heaven. – Note: Ura is a guy, and thus any hypothesis given in regards to feminine sensation is the result of theory, backed by observations both casual and experimental, as well as additional data gleaned through research and interviews. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/35 "2010-11-23T05:25:21Z")
I’m not MeanOldLady, but I’ll venture that the difference is that the ‘dating’ relationships have the potential to become actual, long-term, exclusive relationships, as opposed to the FWB relationship, which is static. On the other hand, I’m still trying to absorb how an FWB relationship can be ‘exclusive’. That one blows my mind. I understand if not actively looking for anything more, but I can’t understand ruling it out for the sake of an FWB thing. > [@rachelellogram](#): > > I don’t like mouth-kissing anymore. This may go on my list of “Top Ten Saddest Things I Read on The Straight Dope”. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![taffygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@taffygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taffygirl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/36 "2010-11-23T13:59:00Z")
[quote=“MichaelEmouse, post:32, topic:561265”] I’ve heard that a lot. Why are women particularly turned on by it\*? What does it bring? Why would women be more fond of it than men? The most scientific explanations I’ve read (and sorry, I can’t remember where I read these) is that 1) During the kiss, the woman is soooo close, she can take in some masculine pheromones. Supposedly, there can be something about the scent that will cue her system whether he’d be a good mate (in the reproductive sense). 2) Men’s saliva contains trace amounts of testosterone, which acts as a mild aphrodisiac. But I think it really has more to do with the zillions of nerve endings in the lips, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/37 "2010-11-23T14:07:14Z")
Also, it’s fun. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/38 "2010-11-23T19:08:15Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > On the other hand, I’m still trying to absorb how an FWB relationship can be ‘exclusive’. That one blows my mind. I understand if not actively looking for anything more, but I can’t understand ruling it out for the sake of an FWB thing. FWB as exclusive enables unprotected sex if you’re both clean. So you want to have unprotected sex(assuming non-barrier contraception) but you don’t want to have to interrupt your source of unprotected sex periodically while you get re-tested after having a fling or one nighter. If relationship material comes along, then you end the FWB, but until then the fun/convenience of barebacking balances out the exclusivity. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/39 "2010-11-23T19:55:46Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I’m not MeanOldLady, but I’ll venture that the difference is that the ‘dating’ relationships have the potential to become actual, long-term, exclusive relationships, as opposed to the FWB relationship, which is static. More or less. With a FWB, there is no relationship and no desire to be in a relationship. We’re friends like anyone else, except after the movie is over, we shag furiously. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, I’m still trying to absorb how an FWB relationship can be ‘exclusive’. That one blows my mind. I understand if not actively looking for anything more, but I can’t understand ruling it out for the sake of an FWB thing. What **Mtgman** said, plus if I’m getting some decent action from my friend, I’m happy, and don’t really need or want to go hunting for strange. When I meet a boy who may be relationship material that I actually want to date, the FWB goes back to being just the F. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265/40 "2010-11-23T22:59:53Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > On the other hand, I’m still trying to absorb how an FWB relationship can be ‘exclusive’. That one blows my mind. I understand if not actively looking for anything more, but I can’t understand ruling it out for the sake of an FWB thing. > ( Did anyone say that they were in an exclusive FWB relationship? I agree that that doesn’t make sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-boundaries/561265.md?page=3)