# Friends with Benefits -- WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 17, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531 "2013-10-17T23:03:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/81 "2013-10-18T23:08:10Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > She didn’t. She said both guys stated they wanted a long term relationship initially, but later reneged and tried to negotiate a FWB instead. She’s insulted because they as much as told her that all they wanted from her was sex until they found someone more suitable. She is interested in something lasting rather than serving as someone’s plaything until something better comes along. I’m sure if she had advertised for a FWB she wouldn’t be insulted by such a proposal. You know, a common complaint about selling on Craigslist is that if you post something for sale at $1000, there are people who will show up and offer less than $500 for it, even if they agree to the 1K during initial contact. This is pretty much the same thing, only much more personal. These guys are telling the OP that she’s good enough to fuck every now and then, but not good enough to be a girlfriend. If everyone involved is looking for a FWB situation, that’s one thing. But trying to change the deal after the negotiations is another. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/82 "2013-10-19T00:35:11Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I don’t think that is particular to FWB relationships, though. Any type of human relationship brings this type of risk. Right, but the exploitative FWB situation creates this unique self-righteous smigness in the exploiter: They are using someone and causing them pain, and they think honesty somehow removes all responsibility to be kind. They maintain willful ignorance to allow for indulgence. It’s like someone who abandons a dog on the side of the road, and thinks that makes them a better person than the person that just shot the dog they didn’t want anymore. They are prolonging suffering so that they can lie to themselves about causing it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/83 "2013-10-19T00:36:56Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > You know, a common complaint about selling on Craigslist is that if you post something for sale at $1000, there are people who will show up and offer less than $500 for it, even if they agree to the 1K during initial contact. > > This is pretty much the same thing, only much more personal. These guys are telling the OP that she’s good enough to fuck every now and then, but not good enough to be a girlfriend. If everyone involved is looking for a FWB situation, that’s one thing. But trying to change the deal after the negotiations is another. What if the ad is for a like new late model sports car but when you show up it turns out to be ten years older than advertised and heavily used? ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/84 "2013-10-19T01:07:45Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > What if the ad is for a like new late model sports car but when you show up it turns out to be ten years older than advertised and heavily used? Start a thread entitled Misrepresented Pics in Online Dating Profiles–WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/85 "2013-10-19T07:12:12Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Depends on who wants what. Sometimes a friendship develops, sometimes it become longterm commitment. > Dating online is just like dating in real life. There are people who hook up in bars and don’t even get each other’s names. > With an email situation, you at least have some idea of the person’s general intelligence and sanity before you ever meet. If they are friends with benefits, that automatically says there is a friendship. If it’s just sex, that’s a fuck buddy. ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/86 "2013-10-20T17:33:01Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > There are, but they’re all gay. Maybe to other women, but gay men do the SAME bullshit with other men as straight men do with women. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/87 "2013-10-20T17:39:02Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I thought the opposite of casual was formal? 😉 Formal sex sounds kind of fancy. Top hats ? ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/88 "2013-10-21T11:26:25Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I don’t think that’s what the OP was doing. For further evidence, see Post #58. I think she is. Post #57 includes: > [@](#): > > The point is, they need to be interested enough, mature enough, to be exclusive. Mature != exclusive. There’s nothing inherently immature about liking FWB relationships. I’ve had them in the past and likely will have them in the future, and as long as everyone is honest and actually treats each other as friends, they can work. I tend to prefer guys in open relationships, since they have their “one and only” and it’s pretty clear that we’re just each other’s piece on the side. 😉 That being said, I agree that if that isn’t what she wants, that’s cool. And the guys misrepresenting what they want isn’t cool. A friend of mine braved the online waters specifically stating she wanted a Fuck Buddy, not even FWB, and she got a lot of guys who treated her like crap when they first met for coffee. Apparently a woman wanting NSA sex must obviously have something seriously wrong with her and guys can therefore treat her like she’s less of a person than a woman looking for love. :rolleyes: Still, I don’t want to jump down the OP’s throat too far. She wants what she wants, and guys saying they want one thing while actually wanting another sucks. I wish you luck, and I hope you can find a fulfilling relationship sooner rather than later! ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/89 "2013-10-21T13:27:37Z")
Good post! The OP can choose what kind of relationship she would like, and the men should not move the goalposts. I also agree that they way their offers were allegedly phrased along the lines of “you’ll do until I find someone better” would probably make me say “no thanks” too. But I do think that both in the OP and in several other posts a feeling that FWB or casual sex are somehow wrong, immature or “using people” crept into the argument. The posters who picked up on this and objected are not in the wrong either. ---
**Author:** ![jayrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@jayrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayrey)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/90 "2013-10-21T18:38:59Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > Good post! > > The OP can choose what kind of relationship she would like, and the men should not move the goalposts. I also agree that they way their offers were allegedly phrased along the lines of “you’ll do until I find someone better” would probably make me say “no thanks” too. > > But I do think that both in the OP and in several other posts a feeling that FWB or casual sex are somehow wrong, immature or “using people” crept into the argument. The posters who picked up on this and objected are not in the wrong either. **Pookah** , you are correct. In my initial post, I did judge the men that wanted FWB or casual sex as wrong and immature. I apologize if I offended anyone. I am calmer now and acknowledge that exclusive sexually relationships are not for everyone. If all parties are happy with casual sex, more power to them. My frustration came from having been very clear about what I wanted (not casual sex) and feeling disrespected when that was so blatantly disregarded. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/91 "2013-10-21T19:30:32Z")
> [@jayrey](#): > > **Pookah** , you are correct. In my initial post, I did judge the men that wanted FWB or casual sex as wrong and immature. I apologize if I offended anyone. I am calmer now and acknowledge that exclusive sexually relationships are not for everyone. If all parties are happy with casual sex, more power to them. My frustration came from having been very clear about what I wanted (not casual sex) and feeling disrespected when that was so blatantly disregarded. And I think they way you describe it, you were totally right to be offended in that situation! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/92 "2013-10-21T19:48:27Z")
I don’t see any reason for signficance offense. two ways this could play out. 1. She: I’m interested in a relationship He: Sorry, no. They part ways. 1. She: I’m interested in a relationship. He. Sorry, no. How about just sex until we find what we’re looking for. She. Sorry, no. They part ways. I don’t think they guy’s proposal was the most offensive thing I’ve seen today. Sure, she should reject the proposal as something she is completely uninterested in. Making a counter offer, and one that you are free to easily reject without pain or consequence, doesn’t seem like your feelings were “blatantly disregarded.” I don’t see the trauma in having to say “no” to “Do you want to be FWB?” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/93 "2013-10-21T20:44:33Z")
I agree- it’s a basic offer/counteroffer. I think people are taking this waaaay too personally. Just because a person doesn’t want to be in a committed relationship with you doesn’t mean they don’t respect you or they don’t think that you are “good enough.” There are billions of people I am not interested in having an exclusive relationship with, most of whom are perfectly decent people, just not my thing. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/94 "2013-10-22T07:24:45Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > This is pretty much the same thing, only much more personal. These guys are telling the OP that she’s good enough to fuck every now and then, but not good enough to be a girlfriend. If everyone involved is looking for a FWB situation, that’s one thing. But trying to change the deal after the negotiations is another. women do it all the time too… something else…at least in my experience. FWB ends up being pretty exclusive. Its more than a friend, and I have had several such relationships over the years. Usually the first thing that is asked is to be informed if there is anyone else “in play” and to be advised of any changes in that status. It can suck, especially if you really like someone…but you dont assume the FWB is in it long haul…it may develop into that…but its often a nice thing even if it does not last forever. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/95 "2013-10-22T08:39:33Z")
The other thing is the guys aren’t necessarily being misleading. Maybe they ARE looking for a relationship - just not with the OP. it doesn’t mean they (necessarily) pulled a bait and switch. They might just not be that into her. Or maybe they are into her, but not for 45 minutes (unless just for sex). And there aren’t a whole lot of women who will upfront admit they are ok with a FWB. Most FWB end up that way by accident. It isn’t unreasonable for a guy to ask that - even if at first she said she wasn’t looking for something casual - as virtually every woman says that. I bet if you asked 100 women (who ended up being FWB that resulted from meeting someone on an online date) on their first date (secretly - say in a poll when they went to the bathroom - but before it was obvious their was some incompatibility): “are you willing to be a FWB with this guy?” - that at LEAST 80 would say no. I’m not saying disregard what she says, just that things change. If two people hit it off, but are not compatible for whatever reason - the guy (or gal) might say - I don’t think this will work, but how about we enjoy each other company for the time being. And there can still be romance. Or more - at least in my experience - along the lines of passion. You can totally be into someone - but not want to spend the rest of your life with them. In some ways - this allows you to be more passionate. You can enjoy them for who they are - and not care about their flaws (in many cases at least). Some of my most passionate and meaningful moments were with women where we both realized we would never be in an exclusive relationship. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/96 "2013-10-22T09:28:44Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I agree- it’s a basic offer/counteroffer. I think people are taking this waaaay too personally. Just because a person doesn’t want to be in a committed relationship with you doesn’t mean they don’t respect you or they don’t think that you are “good enough.” There are billions of people I am not interested in having an exclusive relationship with, most of whom are perfectly decent people, just not my thing. I think it depends on the situation and how the offers were being presented. As I’ve made very clear in previous posts, I’ve absolutely nothing against casual hook-ups, but there’s a time and place. I think it’s a bit disingenuous to say it’s only ever an honest offer - some people are into the more “old fashioned” get to know someone to settle down with school of thought. I think most people are well able to figure out if that’s what’s going on and they should respect those terms. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/97 "2013-10-22T11:15:20Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I have heard that you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince. Well that’s where you are wrong. The princess didn’t kiss the prince until he had already transformed from a frog. > [@](#): > > Although in modern versions the transformation is invariably triggered by the princess kissing the frog, in the original Grimm version of the story the frog’s spell was broken when the princess **threw it against a wall in disgust**. [The Frog Prince](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Frog_Prince_%28story%29) A much more satisfying conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Mrmanface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mrmanface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrmanface)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/98 "2013-10-22T12:23:18Z")
> [@jayrey](#): > > I am becoming more and more convinced that there are no decent, trustworthy, emotionally healthy single men left in the world. :(☹ Let me rephrase. “I am a 56 year old woman and I just rejected up to 6 perfectly decent men for no good reason in the world, like at all they were perfectly decent and I rejected them just because I could. I Then dated two scum bags who were kind of cute and them dumped them for being scum bags why are there no good men left ?” ---
**Author:** ![Mrmanface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mrmanface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrmanface)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/99 "2013-10-22T12:24:21Z")
> [@jayrey](#): > > Yes! Exactly! I think that’s part of the reason I reacted so badly to it. C’mon, boys. We’re not adolescents here. YOU might not be but that doesn’t mean that men want to be like you. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_York](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_York](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_York)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/100 "2013-10-22T12:34:46Z")
> [@jayrey](#): > > I > I am becoming more and more convinced that there are no decent, trustworthy, emotionally healthy single men left in the world. :(☹ That’s true, they are like parking spots, all the good ones are taken, the rest are handicapped. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531.md?page=6)