# Friends with Benefits -- WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 17, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531 "2013-10-17T23:03:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/101 "2013-10-22T15:00:02Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_York](#): > > That’s true, they are like parking spots, all the good ones are taken, the rest are handicapped. My favorite version of that is all the good ones are taken all that is left are the small, the distant, and handicapped. ---
**Author:** ![Mrmanface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mrmanface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrmanface)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/102 "2013-10-22T20:54:32Z")
Wow… what a sexist thread. Comparing men to parking spots ? Maybe your attitude towards men is the reason you’re having trouble with dating. Perhaps you should consider therapy. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/103 "2013-10-22T21:58:07Z")
> [@Mrmanface](#): > > Wow… what a sexist thread. Comparing men to parking spots ? Maybe your attitude towards men is the reason you’re having trouble with dating. Perhaps you should consider therapy. It could be called just as sexist when the OP assumes that men who wont make major commitments are immature or assholes for wanting to try the proverbial milk before buying the proverbial cow. FWB scenarios are parts of many perfectly mature responsible relationships, its just not the storybook form of idealized relationship they think is proper. I am 43, at this point I have no meaningful plans to ever marry again I also do not require it. I have had many situations that I would call FWB, none lasted more than 6 months or so, but some involved people who were moving out of town in a few months, some were folks fresh out of long marriages who were in little emotional condition to get involved in another long term relationship but really wanted some physical affection. Only one of the 5-6 of these off the top of my head do not still talk to me, we are FB friends, we chat here and there. We are adults, we don’t play legos or candy land, we have sex, we can, we like it, it feels good. Its not just a matter of that they feel you are good enough to fuck but not good enough to keep, many people do not want a carved in stone relationship with ANYONE, not just you. Healing the scars left by a prior dysfunctional relationship often takes many connections to understand that the problems that caused a prior relationship disaster are either not common, not your fault, or maybe ARE your fault and you did not realize that healthy people are all reacting the same way to your own dysfunctional behavior. Sometimes folks have an attraction to a personality component that is common to sociopaths, borderline personalities, etc. At that point its not that they are unhealthy, but they are seeking unhealthy relationships because of a bias they do not understand they have. Folks don’t even realize they are sending “I love drama” signals to every nutter they cross paths with. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/104 "2013-10-23T04:31:04Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > Different goals and different people call for different strategies. I think your idea of casual sex never leading to anything more is an interesting point, though I think it really depends on the situation and the type of people involved. I have some anecdotal evidence to the contrary, too. > > However, I do want to object, and strongly, to the the part of your post where you talk about a woman “being a little more respectful” of herself. Look, I’m totally one hundred percent respectful of myself. I also have a tendency to sleep with people who take my fancy in very casual settings. We both know what we’re in for, it’s fun and it says absolutely nothing negative about my self respect. True. If a person wants casual sex only, that doesn’t mean that they’re somehow not worthy of respect. Perhaps “cautious for oneself” is a better way of phrasing it. Meaning cautious of one’s heart that is. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/105 "2013-10-23T04:46:53Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > How do you get into a long term committed loving relation with someone you haven’t had sex with? > And why would you? What if you’re completely incompatible? Good grief “doesn’t have casual sex” does NOT then equal “never has sex AT ALL if/until married”. If a person is going for a love/long term committed relationship, as our OP is, then it’s more like "why would I WANT to have sex with someone with whom I’m completely incompatible re: life/love/etc? Personally, I’ve never found that casual sex is all that enjoyable or satisfying, not like sex within a relationship is. Based on my dating and relationship experience (and I’m no angel, I’m 54 years old and have had both flings and LTCRs). The LTCR sex is like steak compared to a protein bar for casual sex (not even a hamburger…:D). Maybe it’s different for men, after all, men (unless there’s some mechanical disfunction), are pretty much guaranteed orgasm just by plain old intercourse. Casual sex partners (IME) aren’t all that motivated to be skillful in bed, whereas a lover is. The second thing is, holding off, until the two people involved know each other to a reasonable degree (like does he have several babies by several different women? Is he living in his mom’s basement at 43? Is a borderline, or outright abusive?) is key. And for women (standard disclaimer, not ALL of course), we tend to become bonded and have their judgment somewhat clouded after sex. That is, we can feel as if we’re “in love” with a guy without really knowing him. (I believe there’s even a hormone responsible for this misconception on our parts [Oxytocin - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin)). This can make things really painful if the guy “hits and runs”. Hence the “no casual sex” rule. Holding off for awhile (and again, I’m no angel, it’s not that easy for us either when we really like a guy and it’s obvious there is chemistry) just gives you a chance to make sure you’re compatible in other ways before you jump into the sack. > [@](#): > > I can live with a woman who leaves the cap off the toothpaste. I can’t live with a woman who doesn’t like to receive oral sex… Hi there! 😃 All kidding aside, it’s not as if this is something that a potential couple can’t discuss during the dating process. I mean, “no casual sex” doesn’t mean “must comport oneself as a nun, no naughty talk, no kissin’ no nuttin!”. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/106 "2013-10-23T05:00:11Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > 52 year old male. If a woman is interested in me, she should contact me, just as if I am interested in a woman, I will contact her. I’m not into gender games. Ugh…I was afraid of that. 😃 Like the OP, I would like to date again someday, but thanks to issues like the ones she brings up, I have no idea how to go about it. I found online sites to be truly horrific, but by the same token, I rarely see a man IRL who truly catches my eye enough to try and do something about it. I’ve seen two in the last three years, and both were married. I think what someone else said upthread is totally correct. Most men our age are taken, or in their second childhood re: dating. Which pretty much leaves us “I just want someone to love” types out in the cold. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/107 "2013-10-23T06:43:16Z")
> [@jayrey](#): > > The two men I’m complaining about both claimed they wanted a committed relationship, but it quickly became clear that they were enjoying playing the field. I don’t care if a man wants to play the field, but he’s not going to be having sex with me WHILE HE IS CONTINUING TO DATE OTHER WOMEN. I have no interest in being part of someone’s harem. > > A note on “trustworthy.” What I meant by that was a man whom I could believe what he said about himself and about what he wanted. There seem to be quite a few men who say they want x when they know perfectly well they want y. I’m tired of being lied to. > [@jayrey](#): > > In my initial post, I did judge the men that wanted FWB or casual sex as wrong and immature. I apologize if I offended anyone. I am calmer now and acknowledge that exclusive sexually relationships are not for everyone. If all parties are happy with casual sex, more power to them. My frustration came from having been very clear about what I wanted (not casual sex) and feeling disrespected when that was so blatantly disregarded. My brief online dating experience mirrored yours so I can completely relate to your frustration, **jayrey**. In theory putting yourself out there in the online dating world should make things much more straightforward than being set up by friends or meeting someone through church/gym/whatever because a well-written profile that states your goal of a long-term relationship and some details of your likes/dislikes should clear up a lot of deal-breakers before things even get started. That’s what made it so damned frustrating to discover on a second or third date that the man sitting across from me had no interest in a long-term relationship with a smoker/cat-owner/whatever – _ **especially** _ if they then offered casual sex. I also was left feeling like there are “no decent, trustworthy, emotionally healthy single men left in the world”. On reflection you know that’s not true and I’m glad, because that means you’ll be ready for the guy who is genuinely open to the long-term relationship you’re both looking for. (I crawled out of my angry and bitter shell just in time to find the wonderful man who is currently snoring and farting next to me.) The type of men from your OP who were apparently willing to travel for casual sex but not for a girlfriend :dubious: ruined online dating for me, but my more patient girlfriend waded through dozens (ugh) of men to find the fabulous guy to whom she is currently engaged. It can happen, but it takes a lot of work and patience. Just make sure you manage your expectations and stay true to yourself. I wish you good luck and good love. And a man who doesn’t fart. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/108 "2013-10-23T07:05:03Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > My favorite version of that is all the good ones are taken all that is left are the small, the distant, and handicapped. Mine is, “Men are like parking spaces: Sometimes I drive my car into them.” (Courtesy of @meganamram) ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/109 "2013-10-23T07:41:27Z")
I see a big part of the problem with this thread as conflating “friends with benefits” with “fuck buddies.” The men in the OP were looking for the latter, not the former, afaict. The story with Helen and Walter, that was two fuck buddies as well. Friends care about each other, socialize, keep in touch. Sometimes the relationship evolves to the benefits part down the line. I think if either of the men in the OP had said they wanted to be just friends and we’ll see what happens, it would have been different - it would say they wanted to get to know and value the OP for who she was, aside from a sexual relationship. The whole “eh, ya wanna be fuck-buddies?” thing says “the only thing about you that interest me is casual sex, so let’s do that and I’ll ignore you the rest of the time.” Hardly a friendship, and only benefiting them. I’m against the whole FWB thing (you know, when the two people are actually acquainted) - the real thing involves real friends and invariably, it’s revealed that one person is more invested, deluding themselves and bound to get hurt. It’s one of the more painful ways to destroy a friendship. It’s like a good salsa - good when it’s good, but harder than it looks and easy to mess up. Fuck buddies, where the people are both clearly just using each other and have little real affection, is like guacamole - slimey and somewhat cold, but less prone to heartbreak. And life, that’s like a bowl of Chex mix… ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/110 "2013-10-23T08:37:23Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I see a big part of the problem with this thread as conflating “friends with benefits” with “fuck buddies.” The men in the OP were looking for the latter, not the former, afaict. [snip] I think if either of the men in the OP had said they wanted to be just friends and we’ll see what happens, it would have been different - it would say they wanted to get to know and value the OP for who she was, aside from a sexual relationship. The whole “eh, ya wanna be fuck-buddies?” thing says “the only thing about you that interest me is casual sex, so let’s do that and I’ll ignore you the rest of the time.” Hardly a friendship, and only benefiting them. I agree. If the OP was clear in her dating profile/communication both men should have known she was seeking a long-term relationship, not a fuck buddy or a FWB. They also claimed her geography was an LTR deal-breaker … but they met her for dates anyway? _harrumph_ It’s hard to believe these guys ever wanted to be “friends” of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/111 "2013-10-23T10:03:02Z")
> [@PotLuck](#): > > I agree. If the OP was clear in her dating profile/communication both men should have known she was seeking a long-term relationship, not a fuck buddy or a FWB. They also claimed her geography was an LTR deal-breaker … but they met her for dates anyway? _harrumph_ It’s hard to believe these guys ever wanted to be “friends” of any kind. I would imagine the geography bit is a white lie for “We didn’t really hit it off.” I doubt the rate of return on a bait and switch is worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/112 "2013-10-23T12:51:38Z")
> [@PotLuck](#): > > I wish you good luck and good love. And a man who doesn’t fart. 😉 For that last wish, you’ll have to settle for a dead man. And dead for at least a while, at that. Unrealistic expectations in relationships are not uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Khendrask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@Khendrask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khendrask)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/113 "2013-10-23T13:03:09Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Unfortunately, this screws things up for us good guys. I haven’t done the online dating thing much but from what I have done, it seems to be nearly impossible to actually talk to someone without them assuming you’re a creep. After a few times, I just give up for a while. I tend to agree with the above. I’m a decent, long time divorced guy, 47, and every time I try the online dating thing, I pretty much just find completely jaded women. Of course, after being single for more then ten years, I’m pretty bitter myself. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531/114 "2013-10-23T16:07:11Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I would imagine the geography bit is a white lie for “We didn’t really hit it off.” I doubt the rate of return on a bait and switch is worth the effort. White or not it’s a definitely a lie and if the return on the bait and switch is sex, it’s worth it to some guys. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/friends-with-benefits-wtf/671531.md?page=5)