# Fringe 11/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 12, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716 "2011-11-12T19:17:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/21 "2011-11-14T05:24:37Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > IOW: This explains _why_ the Observer pulled Peter from the ice in the first place. > > If Peter can’t be erased, it only makes sense to try to get back home, and continue to repair the damage Walter caused. > > Yeh? > > And if successful, perhaps we’ll see him flutter back into existence, with new knowledge and a revelation. > > OR, perhaps the Peter that got out of the machine was the Peter after the event’s of THIS season? Perhaps, he gained the knowledge of the how to build a bridge from this Amberverse? No - we’ll end this season the way they ended that episode where he went to 2026 - he’ll wake up surrounded by everyone after he entered the machine, and this entire season will not have happened - they’re doing the time warp again. and it’s driving me insane. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/22 "2011-11-14T08:29:27Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Let’s think this out. Bear with me… > > Peter eventually uses the time machine at the end of season 3, creating a paradox in that He and Walter build that very time machine in 2026 to send the pieces back in time millions of years ago, where upon the 2008–2011 Fringe Gang will find and gather the pieces (not knowing it was themselves who constructed it and hid the pieces in the past), to then later be used by Peter to… a continuous loop. > > But. > > We’re missing the actual _plan._ When Peter comes out of the machine, he’s elated and says he “built” a bridge between the two universes to work together and… he fades away. > > Here’s what I’m thinking, although there’s nothing yet to confirm it. > > Since Peter used the machine to get to 2026, it became apparent they, themselves built it. Peter told Walter, that this time, he has to do the right thing, and finally let him go. Walter finally accepted this. > > But we don’t know what they intended to happen. Did Peter say that because he thought they needed to change the timeline as we see it now, where he’s not supposed to live past age 10? And if so, how would that work, since it was an Observer who saved him. OR… was the machine designed with a dual purpose, to bring Peter forward and backward in time and to reverse the damage it’s wreaked over the last 15 years but creating some kind of bridge? Or perhaps they were _led_ to believe they designed the thing by the Observers as a trick to “set events straight” and make sure both Peters died that day, by choosing not to pull him out of the ice. > > Either way, look at it from the point of Peter. He seems to remember everything. He hasn’t had any dialog about this yet, but what exactly did he experience when he “fluttered out of existence”? > > I’m thinking one second, he was telling the gang about the new UniBridge, then the next thing he knew he was gasping for air at the very spot he drowned in this new universe. > > Peter’s been preserved. Maybe because the machine booted him out of the blue and red universes he knew, and tossed him into an altogether new one where he died, because the Observer didn’t pull him out (as according to their plans to correct the “omniverse”). > > So, he’s stuck here, and the only option is to use the machine again. He’s going to need to find the Observer. He’s going to need to convince him he needs to go back to that day on the ice, and pull him out. And, while the Observer will be reluctant, he’ll do it because he’s obviously emotionally compromised in his “mission”. And this will bring everything full circle… and we’re back where we started, because the universe Peter finds himself in is the one that was supposed to exist. > > The universes from the previous 3 seasons were ones where the Observer interfered in saving the life of Peter. But why? _ **Because Peter convinced him to.** _ > > So, now that I wrote all that out, I can’t wait to see how way off I am. This show is fun. Wow, you’ve really given this a lot of thought. But I think that since the Observers can see multiple time scenarios at the same time I don’t think they’d get trapped in a time loop. My thoughts and questions are: While we now know that Peter had to live in order to operate the machine, who operated it in the new Peterless timeline? Peter was needed to operate the machine to bring the two universes together and it seems like it was the Observers plans all along, yet if one of the observers hadn’t accidentally prevented Walternate from finding a cure, our Walter would have never gone over in the first place to save Peter and the machine to fix his damage would be unnecessary. Unless maybe Walter was going to cross over for one reason or another anyway. The Observers seem to act like it’s necessary for Peter to be written out of existence, but there’s no good reason why. I’ll be surprised if the writers give a good reason why. Remember the tunneling capsules in season 1? One of the observers said he’d give answers about them. He never did. I’ve loved time travel fiction for a long long time, but you have to be careful with how you do it or else it isn’t very satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/23 "2011-11-15T01:08:50Z")
> [@Batsinma\_Belfry](#): > > What’s that flat-screen tv, doing in Walter’s house? He’s not lived there since he went to the psychiatric hospital. That’s also not the house he lived in before going to the psychiatric hospital, but the one he and Peter bought after they got tired of living in a hotel. How shut in living in the lab Walter came to own it is a bigger mystery than a flatscreen to me. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/24 "2011-11-15T01:26:45Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I’m surprised Walternate hasn’t come over to see Peter himself. Surely Walternate knows about Peter and his scientific curiosity should lead him to see his possible son for himself. > > While this episode was OK, it also reinforced my feelings that wiping Peter out of existence was pointless, and this introduces yet another pointless snag in Peter and Oliva’s relationship. After becoming romantic Oliva is replaced by Fauxlivia. Then, after the real Olivia comes back she’s angry with Peter because he couldn’t tell her from Fauxlivia. Now, she doesn’t even know him. Ugh, I don’t really care to see Peter trying win Oliva back. I just want that to go away and for the show to move forward. The sooner things get back to normal, the better. Actually, I want Peter dead and gone. Forever. Possibly with his butchered corpse atomized and smeared across a thousand universes. Olivia/Fauxlivia & Peter have anti-chemistry. They generate negative chemistry. Bob Dole and Al Gore’s offspring would have more charisma than Livia/Peter. Kill him dead! And then maybe hook Olivia up with Lincoln. Or bring Charlie back from the dead and hook Olivia up with him (they had chemistry). Or get that orangutan that showed up on a few episodes of Murphy Brown and have Olivia date him. (I’m not a Peter fan. I know I’m shy about it so it’s hard to tell, but I thought everyone should know. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/25 "2011-11-15T01:37:42Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > That’s also not the house he lived in before going to the psychiatric hospital, but the one he and Peter bought after they got tired of living in a hotel. How shut in living in the lab Walter came to own it is a bigger mystery than a flatscreen to me. Maybe that’s the answer. Did Broyles says Walter ever lived in that house, or just owned it? In this timeline maybe Walter bought the house as an investment and the previous tenants moved out a while ago. Of course, the amount of dusty spiderwebs indicate that its been uninhabited for a long time, like well before flatscreen TVs. So I’m back to thinking it’s a goof. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/26 "2011-11-15T01:58:00Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Actually, I want Peter dead and gone. Forever. Possibly with his butchered corpse atomized and smeared across a thousand universes. > > Olivia/Fauxlivia & Peter have anti-chemistry. They generate negative chemistry. Bob Dole and Al Gore’s offspring would have more charisma than Livia/Peter. > > Kill him dead! > > And then maybe hook Olivia up with Lincoln. Or bring Charlie back from the dead and hook Olivia up with him (they had chemistry). Or get that orangutan that showed up on a few episodes of Murphy Brown and have Olivia date him. > > (I’m not a Peter fan. I know I’m shy about it so it’s hard to tell, but I thought everyone should know. 😃 ) In some interview I watched with Joshua Jackson he said something to effect that erasing Peter was necessary to end the Peter saga. If that was supposed to take focus off of Peter it didn’t work, seeing as how he’s in the middle of everything happening right now. I’m pretty certain that Joshua Jackson is the main star of the show and he’ll get more screen time and feature more prominently than any of the other cast members. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/27 "2011-11-15T04:13:44Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I’m pretty certain that Joshua Jackson is the main star of the show and he’ll get more screen time and feature more prominently than any of the other cast members. They may have thought that at the start of the show’s production, but his character has never been central, just pivotal to the whole saga they built up. It’s pretty clear from almost day one that Walter/John Noble turned out to be the true star. And he’d probably argue that it’s a pretty even blend of everyone, and it’s the arc that’s the star. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/28 "2011-11-15T06:37:31Z")
So, since the Fringe Div is unaware of the Observers, this must be because the Observers don’t care to reveal themselves here, or that this universe is of no interest to them, now that the Observer clan thinks Peter’s death has been restored and the space-time continuum is stable again. (of course, they apparently haven’t realized Observer #1 couldn’t go through with the Peter Eraser Machine). But, why are they so interested in Peter? Even in this 'verse, he’s dead, but the two universes are unstable still, correct? There must be something we don’t know about the consequences of Peter living in the bigger picture the Observers see. Something down the line… Although, if they _do_ go full-circle, and it was adult Peter that convinces the Observer to save his child self… I’d be curious where they’d go from there. Eventually, the end game would be filling us in on what, where, when and why the Observers are. And why are they so obsessed with Peter? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/29 "2011-11-15T06:38:48Z")
Or maybe it’s Olivia who convinces the Observer? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/30 "2011-11-15T13:00:14Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > They may have thought that at the start of the show’s production, but his character has never been central, just pivotal to the whole saga they built up. It’s pretty clear from almost day one that Walter/John Noble turned out to be the true star. And he’d probably argue that it’s a pretty even blend of everyone, and it’s the arc that’s the star. I’d have thought that Olivia was intended to be the star. Everything revolves around her. I think Walter ended up taking over the show and it’s mostly an ensemble now. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/31 "2011-11-15T13:22:30Z")
Removed ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/32 "2011-11-15T13:36:38Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > I don’t think it’s going to be as simple as this being a different universe. It’s got to be the same universe, but altered, like on Buffy when Dawn showed up but with pseudoscience instead of magic monks. > > If it was a different universe, there’d be no reason for Olivia to dream about Peter or Walter to be seeing him in reflective surfaces before he popped out of the lake. Fairly simplistic, but it is still quite easy to come up with a workable explanation: The removal of Peter from “ou” Universe instead created a whole new Universe without Peter (a riff on one method of time travel used in science fiction: that when traveling back in time one creates a whole new universe and travels to that, thus avoiding temporal paradoxes) but for some reason, possibly due to the machine, “our” Peter leaked into the other Universe instead of staying where he was. So not only do we have a Universe with a Peter that no one recognises, there is also “our” Universe, so far unseen in this season, where Peter is missing but everyone does remember him. The appearances of Peter before he appeared in the water are a result of the bleed, he didn’t jump completely into the universe, it was a process whereby firstly the equivalents of those closest to him in “our” universe were made aware of him. It would also explain why we have another new colour for the title sequence. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/33 "2011-11-15T13:38:11Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > IOW: This explains _why_ the Observer pulled Peter from the ice in the first place. I can’t help but compare them to what they are so obviously based on, the Watchers from the Marvel Comics Multiverse. There so often they can’t help but fiddling and interfering even though they are not supposed to. I saw the pulling Peter out as the exact same thing. > **[Uatu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uatu)** > > Uatu (/ˈwɑːtuː/), often simply known as the Watcher, is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. Created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, he first appeared in The Fantastic Four #13 (April 1963). He is a member of the Watchers, an extraterrestrial species who in the distant past stationed themselves across space to monitor the activities of other species. Uatu is the Watcher assigned to observe Earth and its Solar System. > The character has been adapted into ... ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/34 "2011-11-15T13:42:17Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I can’t help but compare them to what they are so obviously based on, the Watchers from the Marvel Comics Multiverse. > > There so often they can’t help but fiddling and interfering even though they are not supposed to. I saw the pulling Peter out as the exact same thing. > > [Uatu - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uatu) He pulled Peter out to undo his mistake of accidentally stopping Walternate from finding the cure to Peter’s disease. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/35 "2011-11-15T13:57:57Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > He pulled Peter out to undo his mistake of accidentally stopping Walternate from finding the cure to Peter’s disease. Wouldn’t that have been meddling as well? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/36 "2011-11-15T14:51:00Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Wouldn’t that have been meddling as well? he had been fussed at for distracting walternate and told to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/37 "2011-11-15T15:16:46Z")
whatever. just hope it all gets wrapped up decently if Fox cancels it this season. I’ll be so mad if it’s another “Lost” debacle. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/38 "2011-11-15T15:25:28Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > whatever. just hope it all gets wrapped up decently if Fox cancels it this season. I’ll be so mad if it’s another “Lost” debacle. I thought this was already stated as being the final season. Have I got that wrong? Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/39 "2011-11-15T16:24:53Z")
Wait, what? This is the final season?? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716/40 "2011-11-15T16:31:53Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > Wait, what? This is the final season?? Thinking about it, I may be confusing things with Chuck. Apologies all having heart attacks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-11-11/602716.md?page=3)