# Fringe 12/10 (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 11, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815 "2009-12-11T03:00:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/21 "2009-12-14T14:22:39Z")
> [@Pyper](#): > > I’m just assuming for now that the Observers are aliens, not people from another universe. One thing I’m wondering about is why opening a door to the other universe is considered so horrible. It’s been heavily implied that the other universe is post-apocalyptic (stuff on fire, plants all dead according to Frozen Head Guy), so is the implication that our world will be flooded with refugees from the other side? Or maybe whatever/whoever caused the disaster on that side will cross over to our Olivia seems to have been brought over by some kind of transporter technology, which I’m assuming is how the hybrids do it. I think only hybrids and special children like Olivia can survive that. Belle went over using an actual doorway that Walter invented and that we saw the big bad from last season use. I think the idea is that with an actual doorway regular humans can get through unharmed. In that other episode, a truck driver from the other universe got stuck in this one. How is he faring? The thing that annoys me is the horrible retcon about Olivia’s trip. The first time, she goes in a magic elevator. The second time, they change it to her having been pulled from her moving car. As far as apocalypse, so far we know the flaming buildings were limited to Boston. It’s possible the blight is limited to that area as well. NY looks fine - better even given the WTC is still standing. We also know they have more advanced tech and more shuttle missions. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/22 "2009-12-14T19:42:49Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Olivia seems to have been brought over by some kind of transporter technology, which I’m assuming is how the hybrids do it. I think only hybrids and special children like Olivia can survive that. Belle mentioned something to Olivia about her abilities. I think he’s implying that she will be able to travel between universes at will. Did you see that one episode where, while investigating a dead body, she would have “dreams” where she was in a world where there were two dead bodies? Walter described it as a dream or premonition, but I think she was moving back and forth between universes. > [@](#): > > In that other episode, a truck driver from the other universe got stuck in this one. How is he faring? If it’s the one from the episode where what’s his name with the bandaged face opened up a portal where the trucker driver went through before the portal closed and split his truck, the truck crashed which killed the driver. > [@](#): > > The thing that annoys me is the horrible retcon about Olivia’s trip. The first time, she goes in a magic elevator. The second time, they change it to her having been pulled from her moving car. Yeah, that really bugged me too. > [@](#): > > As far as apocalypse, so far we know the flaming buildings were limited to Boston. It’s possible the blight is limited to that area as well. NY looks fine - better even given the WTC is still standing. I thought it was just because the 911 attacks hit different targets in the parallel universe. ETA: If there’s still flaming buildings and whatnot, maybe al qaeda is a lot more effective in their universe and they’re still causing trouble for the US on US soil. > [@](#): > > We also know they have more advanced tech and more shuttle missions. I missed that somehow. When was that mentioned? ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/23 "2009-12-15T04:33:46Z")
Did William Bell change his name to Belle when I wasn’t looking, or are we talking about _Beauty and the Beast_ now? Yeah, I know Walter has a nickname for him, but are people spelling it Belle? Really? I’d go for Belly. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/24 "2009-12-15T04:58:17Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > The thing that annoys me is the horrible retcon about Olivia’s trip. The first time, she goes in a magic elevator. The second time, they change it to her having been pulled from her moving car. I don’t think this is a retcon (as [post=11598911]previously discussed[/post]). To quote myself: > [@](#): > > There is an incident when Olivia is driving in New York on her way to meet Nina when she swerves out of the way of a car. It happens quickly and is seemingly inconsequential. This must be the point of transfer, though it does raise the question of how Massive Dynamic moved Olivia through a portal to the alternate reality without her even noticing (though their technology is obviously much more advanced than Jones’ crude contraption). > > In this reality, of course the crash takes place, and that is where we picked up her storyline. In the alternate Manhattan, she doesn’t crash and continues on to her scheduled appointment. Which was, by the way, at the “Mutsumi Hotel on Broadway”, not the World Trade Center. So the elevator was a spatial displacement to move Olivia from the Mutsumi Hotel to the Trade Center, which seems a trivial thing for Massive Dynamic to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/25 "2009-12-15T05:28:45Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > There is an incident when Olivia is driving in New York on her way to meet Nina when she swerves out of the way of a car. It happens quickly and is seemingly inconsequential. This must be the point of transfer, though it does raise the question of how Massive Dynamic moved Olivia through a portal to the alternate reality without her even noticing (though their technology is obviously much more advanced than Jones’ crude contraption). > > In this reality, of course the crash takes place, and that is where we picked up her storyline. In the alternate Manhattan, she doesn’t crash and continues on to her scheduled appointment. Which was, by the way, at the “Mutsumi Hotel on Broadway”, not the World Trade Center. So the elevator was a spatial displacement to move Olivia from the Mutsumi Hotel to the Trade Center, which seems a trivial thing for Massive Dynamic to accomplish. 😕 Let me see if I have this straight. Olivia swerves and gets teleported to her parallel universe counterpart car? So then, when she returns, she has to return to this universe’s car, which had crashed, so…I’m confused. Also, why is there only one Walter, William, and Olivia? In the episode where she moves between worlds, the alternate agent Broyles recognizes Olivia, so does she trade places with her parallel self when she crosses over? OK, I know, I know, these questions will probably get answered as the series progresses. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/26 "2009-12-15T05:41:19Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I thought it was just because the 911 attacks hit different targets in the parallel universe. > ETA: If there’s still flaming buildings and whatnot, maybe al qaeda is a lot more effective in their universe and they’re still causing trouble for the US on US soil. > > I missed that somehow. When was that mentioned? The flaming buildings were from the ep where Olivia was able to switch places with her altnernate self. And that was a recent and limited to Boston thing. The shuttle thing was on a newspaper or poster or something in a flashback I think. “Challenger’s 11th mission” dated to before that could have happened here. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/27 "2009-12-15T06:40:27Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > The shuttle thing was on a newspaper or poster or something in a flashback I think. “Challenger’s 11th mission” dated to before that could have happened here. In the episode where Peter dreams about being kidnapped by Walter there is a poster for the Challenger’s 11th mission on the wall and dated after the Challenger was destroyed in our universe. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/28 "2009-12-15T07:41:24Z")
Guess I have to pay closer attention to details. So, they keep bring up Peter’s abduction. I’m assuming that they’ll be bringing it to a head soon. And when they showed showed the character of Thomas Jerome Newton I keep looking at him, knowing I seen him before…and it kept bugging me, until I realized he played Kurt Mendel on Odyssey 5. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/29 "2009-12-16T00:02:03Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > I thought that was great acting by John Noble/Walter. He’s always great, too. Give the guy an Emmy, he’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/30 "2009-12-16T03:16:55Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > 😕 Let me see if I have this straight. Olivia swerves and gets teleported to her parallel universe counterpart car? So then, when she returns, she has to return to this universe’s car, which had crashed, so…I’m confused. > > Also, why is there only one Walter, William, and Olivia? In the episode where she moves between worlds, the alternate agent Broyles recognizes Olivia, so does she trade places with her parallel self when she crosses over? > > OK, I know, I know, these questions will probably get answered as the series progresses. Hey, I don’t write this stuff, I’m just reporting. 😉 But I’m encouraged by the way the show’s themes are coming together, and it makes me optimistic there actually is a good general outline in mind for the outcome of the mythology, and perhaps overly optimistic that “retcons” are not necessary (being, of course, indications of poor writing - or at least poor planning). I thought the truth of Olivia’s transport was nicely foreshadowed, given the cliffhanger ending from Season 1, when all we know is she wound up “over there” but not really sure _how_. As it turns out, Bell somehow pulled her from her SUV _at the moment of the crash_ when the shapeshifter tried to kill her in “this” universe. When she is sent back, Bell actually apologizes for the “momentum deferred” - that is, she has to go back with her momentum from the deferred crash preserved, thus she smashes through the windshield of the now-idle SUV. As for “only one” Walter, William, and Olivia, well I don’t know where that’s coming from. They’ve repeatedly said “there is more than one” of everything, so I think we simply don’t know what happened to (or haven’t seen) the “other” William or Walter. And Olivia, in the episode in which she saw the other side, was experiencing a shift of her consciousness to her “other side” self, not a body transport (probably as a result of the cortexiphan trials). Clear as mud, yes? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/31 "2009-12-16T03:53:42Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > Hey, I don’t write this stuff, I’m just reporting. 😉 > > But I’m encouraged by the way the show’s themes are coming together, and it makes me optimistic there actually is a good general outline in mind for the outcome of the mythology, and perhaps overly optimistic that “retcons” are not necessary (being, of course, indications of poor writing - or at least poor planning). I thought the truth of Olivia’s transport was nicely foreshadowed, given the cliffhanger ending from Season 1, when all we know is she wound up “over there” but not really sure _how_. As it turns out, Bell somehow pulled her from her SUV _at the moment of the crash_ when the shapeshifter tried to kill her in “this” universe. When she is sent back, Bell actually apologizes for the “momentum deferred” - that is, she has to go back with her momentum from the deferred crash preserved, thus she smashes through the windshield of the now-idle SUV. > > As for “only one” Walter, William, and Olivia, well I don’t know where that’s coming from. They’ve repeatedly said “there is more than one” of everything, so I think we simply don’t know what happened to (or haven’t seen) the “other” William or Walter. And Olivia, in the episode in which she saw the other side, was experiencing a shift of her consciousness to her “other side” self, not a body transport (probably as a result of the cortexiphan trials). Clear as mud, yes? 🆒 Thank you for the explanations. Although it’s possible she physically changed universes, her consciousness shifting makes sense too. But for the car wreck, what the heck was [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qfjMraEE7o&feature=related) all about? ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/32 "2009-12-16T19:55:51Z")
Let me really mess with you…with JJ Abrams, the devil is always in the details. In last week’s episode (12/3) there was a scene where Olivia was hunkered down with some SWAT-types. I had to pause my DVR to check, but, the US flags on the SWAT uniforms didn’t have 50 stars…and I think the stripe number was off, too… …if that’s the case, then WHICH universe are we really watching?? (Or, this could just be a Hollywood ‘artifact’ that shows up because there have to be identifiable differences between Hollywood SWAT uniforms and genuine SWAT uniforms…) ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/33 "2009-12-16T22:39:26Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Let me really mess with you…with JJ Abrams, the devil is always in the details. In last week’s episode (12/3) there was a scene where Olivia was hunkered down with some SWAT-types. I had to pause my DVR to check, but, the US flags on the SWAT uniforms didn’t have 50 stars…and I think the stripe number was off, too… > > …if that’s the case, then WHICH universe are we really watching?? > > (Or, this could just be a Hollywood ‘artifact’ that shows up because there have to be identifiable differences between Hollywood SWAT uniforms and genuine SWAT uniforms…) The show is clever on a number of levels. Now that the glyph code for the images shown at commercial breaks has been broken, I feel a bit like Ralphy in The Christmas Story with his Ovaltine decoder ring. The message doesn’t seem to mean much of anything, but it is fun, and just one more layer of the puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/34 "2009-12-17T07:44:10Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > Now that the glyph code for the images shown at commercial breaks has been broken, I feel a bit like Ralphy in The Christmas Story with his Ovaltine decoder ring. The message doesn’t seem to mean much of anything, but it is fun, and just one more layer of the puzzle. I shout each new letter with glee 😃 It’s also fun, though I’m very at it, to try and spot the observer each episode (I never notice the pineapple in Pysch either). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/35 "2009-12-17T09:02:10Z")
> [@simster](#): > > c) Bell was apparently Dr. Paris This seems particularly likely [since…](http://www.ulike.net/The_Great_Paris) ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/36 "2009-12-17T09:09:15Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > This seems particularly likely [since…](http://www.ulike.net/The_Great_Paris) Nice catch. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/37 "2009-12-17T16:00:59Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Nice catch. Seriously - I like it that the writers aren’t afraid to throw in subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) references like this. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/38 "2009-12-17T19:50:51Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Seriously - I like it that the writers aren’t afraid to throw in subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) references like this. Like having Clint Howard as a Star Trek geek who believes it’s real. Yeah, the writers are doing a good job. I just hope they explain better why they show Olivia change universes in the elevator at the end of season 1, only to say she was taken from her car in season 2. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/39 "2009-12-17T21:38:49Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Like having Clint Howard as a Star Trek geek who believes it’s real. Yeah, the writers are doing a good job. > > I just hope they explain better why they show Olivia change universes in the elevator at the end of season 1, only to say she was taken from her car in season 2. She changed universes in the car - she changed buildings/locations in the other universe in the elevator - we have not been told if/why that was needed - could be the only way to get to Bell’s office, could’ve been for affect because it wasn’t clear she changed when she swerved in the car. (and the flash in the elevator was Olivia’s inherit flash, not anything else) ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815/40 "2009-12-17T21:42:24Z")
Everything about the MRI images and procedures were wrong! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-12-10-spoilers/520815.md?page=3)