# Fringe 2/3/12 "Making Angels" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783 "2012-02-04T20:01:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/1 "2012-02-04T20:01:21Z")
Jasika Nicole is a great actress. I like her portrayal of both Astrids. And I liked the bits of red in alt-Astrid’s hair. It was nice when our Astrid lied to her counterpart, but sad when it turned out that she was lying (as in, I really felt bad for alt-Astrid). And also kind of strange that she still lives with her father. One minor complaint. Last episode Peter tells Olivia that the Observers don’t experience time the same way we do. They exist simultaneously in all times, so they don’t predict the future, instead they’ve already experienced it. This episode we find out they have a device that lets them see all times simultaneously. So it is a prediction. Kind of contradicts what was said last week, no? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/2 "2012-02-04T22:19:44Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > And also kind of strange that she still lives with her father. Meh, not that strange. And maybe he lives with her, it happens. I didn’t like that it was two weeks in a row of the Fringe event of the week involving a character who can foresee how someone will die. Granted they were two different takes on it, but it still would’ve been nice if there’d been a few episodes in between two similar events. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/3 "2012-02-04T23:04:31Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > One minor complaint. Last episode Peter tells Olivia that the Observers don’t experience time the same way we do. They exist simultaneously in all times, so they don’t predict the future, instead they’ve already experienced it. > > This episode we find out they have a device that lets them see all times simultaneously. So it is a prediction. Kind of contradicts what was said last week, no? Experiencing time differently and having a device to see all times simultaneously is not mutually exclusive. Here is an analogy: A movie plays in a theatre only once. To those watching in the theatre, it can only be experienced sequentially. But for a person with a copy of the movie at home, they can already know the outcome during subsequent viewings. They know what happens at all times simultaneously. If someone in the theatre had a handheld device that lets them fast forward to any point in the movie, they can also know the outcome before anyone else in the theatre. However, the Fringe world is not a single sequence of events. When Peter was edited out of the universe, a different timeline unfolded without him. And September told Olivia a few episodes ago that in all the versions of events, it only turns out good if Olivia dies. So I think the Fringe universe is like a computer simulation that can be run over and over with slightly different input variables. And the Observers have a device to fast-forward the simulation to see what happens at any point in time. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/4 "2012-02-04T23:46:57Z")
I loved this episode and it’s what I’d hoped this whole season would be: interaction between the two universes. I really liked the Fauxlivia/Walter interaction and all the interactions with Astrid[sup]2[/sup]. Great stuff ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/5 "2012-02-05T00:28:24Z")
**The Controvert** , I’m a little confused at what you’re trying to say. My point is that, although seeing the future and having experienced it produce the same results, they’re different methods. [Force Perspective Transcript](http://fringepedia.net/wiki/Forced_Perspective/Transcript) > [@Force Perspective](#): > > PETER: Well, they show up at significant events all through history. > OLIVIA: Well, how do they do that? Like some kind of time travel? > PETER: No, it’s not really time travel, per se. Uh, it’s more like **they exist in all times simultaneously**. They don’t experience time the same way that you and I do. > OLIVIA: So they know what’s going to happen. I mean, if one of them said something about the future… could they be wrong? > PETER: Well, no, I don’t really see how they could. **They don’t predict the future, Olivia. They’ve already experienced it.** Did one of them make contact with you? Have they reached out? > OLIVIA: No. Bolding mine. [Making Angels transcript](http://www.fringepedia.net/wiki/Making_Angels/Transcript) > [@Making Angels](#): > > PETER: The professor said that Neil thought \*\*he could see past, present, and future all at the same time. That’s what the Observers do. \*\*We’ve just never been able to figure out how they do it. But in my timeline, an Observer saved my life. It also happened at Reiden Lake. When Walter crossed over when I was a child to bring me back to his universe, the ice broke. We both fell in. It was an Observer who pulled us out. Maybe a minor nitpick, but experiencing the future and seeing it are two different things. But it’s not a biggie, just a minor slip in the writing. This part at the end of Making Angels seems interesting. > [@](#): > > DECEMBER: You’re right. It’s September’s. > MARCH: He must have lost it in 1985, the night he didn’t save the boy. He’ll be interested to know what happened to it. There’s something else. It appears that September did not obey your instructions. The boy is back. Peter Bishop has returned. I’m wondering if Peter setting off the machine somehow caused September to lose his time viewing device back in 1985 which in turn means that he didn’t save Peter. Which means that his not being saved was more of an accident than anything intentional on the part of the Observers. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/6 "2012-02-05T17:36:37Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > I didn’t like that it was two weeks in a row of the Fringe event of the week involving a character who can foresee how someone will die. Granted they were two different takes on it, but it still would’ve been nice if there’d been a few episodes in between two similar events. I think it was heavily implied that both are connected – the girl in the last episode also referred to a ‘lake house’, the same way the guy (damn, I’m crappy with names lately) from this one did. And of course it’s all connected to Peter, so essentially, it’s just plot development. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/7 "2012-02-05T18:19:38Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I think it was heavily implied that both are connected – the girl in the last episode also referred to a ‘lake house’, the same way the guy (damn, I’m crappy with names lately) from this one did. And of course it’s all connected to Peter, so essentially, it’s just plot development. Huh. I didn’t think of that. I hope this is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/8 "2012-02-06T08:18:23Z")
I bet that the guy with the Observer tech didn’t really know how to use the thing properly. I bet he thought the first reading that he got was the only possible future, so he didn’t consider trying to change the future. Of course, knowing wouldn’t have made much of a difference with the cancer patient and the woman who was an alcoholic, but he might have thought about alternatives with the guy destined for the car accident. Stealing his cell phone or just delaying him long enough to miss the other car might have been sufficient to generate a more positive outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/9 "2012-02-06T10:09:46Z")
The Observers seem to be able to look into multiple possible futures. The guy was probably only able to see one possible future. I thought it was kind of funny when he did the Observer thing of saying the same thing his mother was saying after, during, and then before she said it. But really, what’s the point of doing that? I guess it’s for the audiences sake to show that he (and the observers) are sometimes out of synch with our time. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/10 "2012-02-06T10:18:16Z")
Oh great, apparently Fringe will be off the air the first three weeks in March. [site](http://www.fringebloggers.com/fringe-takes-three-weeks-off-in-march-returns-with-eight-straight/#more-36160) > [@](#): > > ``` > FOX head of scheduling, The Masked Scheduler, claims the [three week break] is in the best interests of the show, as it means it will be on during the February sweeps*: > > “Removing #Fringe from the Feb. sweeps is the death sentence>Fringe is on through the entire Feb sweep.” > > To clarify, following Episode 4.14 (“The End Of All Things“) on Feb 24, Fringe sits it out for for the first three weeks of March to return March 23 with 4.15 (“A Short Story About Love“). From there, it’s 8 new episodes in a row through to the season finale. > > ``` Why does it need a break at all? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/11 "2012-02-06T10:53:28Z")
Because there are only 22 episodes in a season, and they have to last to the end of May. ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/12 "2012-02-06T10:59:41Z")
Was something wrong at my end? When Niel Chung entered the living room, his mother asks where he was going. Then, she replied what he meant that it was time to say good-bye. The problem is, I didn’t hear him say anything. I just saw it again and it seems his mouth is closed the entire time. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/13 "2012-02-06T11:05:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because there are only 22 episodes in a season, and they have to last to the end of May. I guess it wouldn’t be as noticeable if there weren’t all the other breaks. > [@Jormungandr](#): > > Was something wrong at my end? When Niel Chung entered the living room, his mother asks where he was going. Then, she replied what he meant that it was time to say good-bye. The problem is, I didn’t hear him say anything. I just saw it again and it seems his mouth is closed the entire time. Yeah, I saw that too and wondered wtf? Either some ability of the blue light device, or else the writers or editors goofed. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/14 "2012-02-06T22:45:16Z")
Oh, I meant to ask, is this the first time an Observer has been called by name/month on the actual show itself? I know they’ve been called as such for quite a while in other material, but don’t remember it on the show. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/15 "2012-02-06T23:04:47Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Oh, I meant to ask, is this the first time an Observer has been called by name/month on the actual show itself? I know they’ve been called as such for quite a while in other material, but don’t remember it on the show. The month/naming thing was established sometime last season ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/16 "2012-02-08T11:07:26Z")
Sometimes re-watching past episodes can help give a glimpse into present ones. One of my Christmas gifts was Season 1 of Fringe. Last night I watched one episode I liked, “The Road Not taken”. In one scene Walter explains what Déjà vu is. The explanation is silly of course, but the theory of time, if the writers stick to it, proves that Peter’s old timeline still exists. And actually so do a million others. [Here’s the clip on YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N96NoQuub4o&feature=related) I’d really click the link above if I were you, but if you can’t get it to work then here’s part of the [transcript](http://fringepedia.net/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken/Transcript): > [@](#): > > WALTER: Typical protracted deja vu. Prolonged. You’re familiar with the – the pliability of space-time, yes? > > PETER: Of course. Who isn’t? > > WALTER: One minute will explain. (rolls out a chalkboard) Most of us experience life as a - a linear progression just like this. (draws a horizontal line) But this is an illusion because every day, life presents us with an array of choices. As a result, life should look more like this. (draws diagonal branches from the first line) And each choice… leads to a new path. To go to work. To stay home. And each choice we take creates a new reality. Do – do you understand? > > OLIVIA: Yes. But what does it have to do with deja vu? > > WALTER: Deja vu is–is–is simply a - a momentary glimpse to the other side. Almost everyone experiences it. We feel that we’ve been somewhere before because actually we have - in another reality. It’s another path. The road not taken. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/17 "2012-02-08T13:40:48Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Sometimes re-watching past episodes can help give a glimpse into present ones. > > One of my Christmas gifts was Season 1 of Fringe. Last night I watched one episode I liked, “The Road Not taken”. In one scene Walter explains what Déjà vu is. The explanation is silly of course, but the theory of time, if the writers stick to it, proves that Peter’s old timeline still exists. And actually so do a million others. > > [Here’s the clip on YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N96NoQuub4o&feature=related) > > I’d really click the link above if I were you, but if you can’t get it to work then here’s part of the [transcript](http://fringepedia.net/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken/Transcript): ahh, yes - the BTTF theory ---
**Author:** ![Iggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Iggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/18 "2012-02-08T17:34:44Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Yeah, I saw that too and wondered wtf? Either some ability of the blue light device, or else the writers or editors goofed. I think it was just a strange line delivery from the Mother. I assume that he said that he came to say goodbye before he went to the safe for the gun. Good episode, though. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/19 "2012-02-08T21:43:56Z")
> [@Iggins](#): > > I think it was just a strange line delivery from the Mother. I assume that he said that he came to say goodbye before he went to the safe for the gun. > > Good episode, though. She was acting as though he answered her question. According to the transcript, > [@](#): > > ANNE CHUNG: Where are you going? > > NEIL CHUNG: I told you. > > ANNE CHUNG: “Where I belong” is not an answer. Were you fired again? He did answer. But like **Jormungandr** , after she asks where he’s going I didn’t see him respond, unless he said it softly and through clenched teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783/20 "2012-02-08T22:16:35Z")
> [@simster](#): > > ahh, yes - the BTTF theory Took a minute to figure out what BTTF means. Anyway, it’s similar but the difference is that in the movies you create a new timeline by going back and changing things in a time machine. In this theory you create a new timeline simply by what you do, or don’t do. It’s an old theory and the best example is the _Community_ episode [Remedial Chaos Theory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remedial_Chaos_Theory). [Obligitory all 7 timelines at once](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JTsb5hg04Oc) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-2-3-12-making-angels/611783.md?page=2)