# Fringe 4-20-2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473 "2012-04-21T02:15:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/1 "2012-04-21T02:15:44Z")
Wow! That was great. Maybe a little too much time used in tech detail stuff, but I think that’s just because I was so intrigued I wanted the revelations to come a little faster. I’m not sure how William Bell ended up in amber, but it probably has something to do with what happened in one particular timeline of one dimension of one world in either the live action or animated version of that reality. And I absolutely called the parentage of the willowy blond agent the minute she appeared on screen. In fact, I thought it was so obvious that I was surprised it played out as a big reveal at the end of the episode. More like this, please. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/2 "2012-04-21T02:22:45Z")
I liked this episode but it looks like they are dropping this storyline, from the preview. Love Henry Ian Cusick!! Wish he would be around for a while… ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/3 "2012-04-21T02:27:53Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > And I absolutely called the parentage of the willowy blond agent the minute she appeared on screen. In fact, I thought it was so obvious that I was surprised it played out as a big reveal at the end of the episode. Yeah, I kinda wish they revealed it at the start, because it was so incredibly obvious. Still, it was a great episode. Part of me wishes it was a two-parter, but I kinda like how it’s just a one-off episode. Everyone can gues what will happen next, but they don’t really need to show it. Plus, featuring my favorite character from my favorite TV show didn’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/4 "2012-04-21T06:46:14Z")
They may not drop this episode. It’s possible that they may just quickly end it and then move on to the Jones plot. Wow, just some liquified brain and Walter becomes his old self. The old self he didn’t like too much in the first place. But then again, maybe that’s what the resistance needs. And you guys are a lot smarter than I am. When Henrietta and Simon were talking I kind of wondered, but I didn’t know for sure until it was revealed. Although I thought her name was cheesy. Just because Peter and Fauxlivia had Henry, didn’t mean that a daughter had to be named Henrietta. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/5 "2012-04-21T07:04:19Z")
On second though, scratch the first thing I said. It’s probably a look at a possible future. Just a filler episode. ---
**Author:** ![ChuckForbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@ChuckForbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChuckForbin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/6 "2012-04-21T12:03:09Z")
On recap blog somewhere they proposed that this could be what season 5 is about. I like the observers, and think that might be OK. Then I wondered - do we know if there will be a season 5 ? Anyway good episode, I always enjoy the alternate intros too. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/7 "2012-04-21T12:47:23Z")
A flash forward with Desmond from _Lost_? That sounds more like a _Psych_ in-joke. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/8 "2012-04-21T21:32:38Z")
On one Website (I don’t remember which) I looked at a couple of days ago it said that two endings were filmed. One for if there is a season five, and one for if there isn’t. It also said that a lot of questions would be answered, such as what September meant when he said Oliva has to die. Oh, and something I forgot to post earlier. When Simon is being held, and then the head Observer looks at him, and Simon starts bleeding, I tell my wife it reminds me of [Scanners](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanners), and then sure enough it turns out that the Observers can scan people. I don’t remember them having that ability. The reason that they could predict what a person did or will do is because they can see into the past or future. This makes me think that they’re in a different timeline than our own. Also, the Observers we’re use to seemed to be very repressed emotionally. The Observers in this episode are sadistic and cruel. Of course if these Observers can see into the future, you think they would have seen the ruin of the planet coming and did something about it before it happened. Or, barring that, a million other things instead of coming into the past and setting up a totalitarian regime. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/9 "2012-04-22T00:18:02Z")
Well, is there any reason that these aren’t alternate Observers as well? A time/dimension stream that had humans gain tonnes of brain abilities but didn’t develop a uber-objective point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/10 "2012-04-22T17:18:21Z")
I suppose Foster is a common enough surname, but if they really wanted to, they could connect Simon Foster to “Bug Girl” Mona Foster from last season. I always hoped that she’d make a return visit to the show one day. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/11 "2012-04-22T18:28:17Z")
You know, this episode would have worked better without the opening crawl. ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/12 "2012-04-23T00:37:50Z")
I’m still watching this episode, but had to come here to kvetch! It seems to me that if an ongoing series suddenly requires a scrolling info-dump, then somebody’s making up shit as they go along. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/13 "2012-04-23T11:39:20Z")
Ok–loved the episode, but…it really doesn’t make sense in the context of the bigger story. I’m getting a LOST vibe here\* 1. If the Observers are able to take over without wiping themselves out, why not go back further and take over, say, 20,000 BC? As it is, they only gave themselves 400 years. Hell, there’s clearly more than just the two universes. So why not find one where humanity never happened? Or one where we never got past say, Neanderthals and just enslave the proto-humans? 1. Where are all the female Observers? 400 years isn’t enough to make us a single gendered species, and even for allowing for genetic manipulation, etc, you’d need women, not men for a one-gendered species. 2. Why were the Observers so anti-Peter? What was so important about him that they A) Had to make sure he didn’t exist B) Had to make sure he didn’t have a son with Fauxlivia 3. While we’re at it, why _were_ they just hanging around at various points in history? Making the Observers bad-guys seems way, WAY out of left field. Until a few episodes ago, there was no hint that the Observers were anything other than neutral. I’m not a fan of the idea that they’re bad-guys. 4. Given that Observers are “outside of time” and clearly not affected by time-paradoxes, why aren’t there “patrols” of Observers hanging out (say) 2 days in the future looking for problems. “August, this is November. I have just returned from two days in the future. In 8 hours, Olivia and Peter’s daughter along with Desmond from LOST will revive Walter Bishop who will break into Massive Dynamics and set off an anti-matter bomb. Please have them killed in their sleep yesterday night. Thank you.” I loved the episode, but it seemed way out of left-field, doesn’t fit the back-story and wasn’t well thought out, IMO. \*“I dunno how to end it! Just come up up with _something_!” The Observers being evil was never once foreshadowed before about 3 episodes back. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/14 "2012-04-23T11:41:49Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > They may not drop this episode. It’s possible that they may just quickly end it and then move on to the Jones plot. > > Wow, just some liquified brain and Walter becomes his old self. The old self he didn’t like too much in the first place. But then again, maybe that’s what the resistance needs. I’m disappointed about the liquified brains thing: again, sloppy writing. We saw an episode where there was powdered brains (a chimp, something else, and Walter) and Walter snorted the chimp’s (and did a monkey thing for a while). Why introduce the brain parts (which…didn’t they get destroyed?) when they could have tied up the loose end about the powdered walter-brain? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/15 "2012-04-23T14:33:10Z")
I think the Observers have been traveling through time to find the best time for them to take over. Some point far enough back that they could easily take over, but the infrastructure is in place so they can live comfortably. Regarding them going to the future to see what’s going to happen next: September explained they see all possible futures, but it comes down to human choice. Which is what they are doing when they are “reading” people. They are seeing what choices they are going to make. Which is what makes Etta so important. She can’t be read by the Observers, so she’s the only one that can stop him. She’s basically the John Conner, which makes Peter the Sarah Conner of this story. The other Observers want to wipe him out so they can take over, but September wants him to live to Etta can stop them. Which basically means September set this plan in motion a long time ago, to get Walter to bring Peter from the other universe so he could be with Olivia. Now I’m not saying the writers had this plan since the beginning, but it makes sense in the grand scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/16 "2012-04-23T15:02:37Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I think the Observers have been traveling through time to find the best time for them to take over. Some point far enough back that they could easily take over, but the infrastructure is in place so they can live comfortably. But…they’re time-travellers and effectively immortal. Take a bunch of 1900-era engineers, stone-masons, plumbers, whatever, back to the Pleistocene, shanghai a bunch of slaves from Egyptian/Roman/Whatever days (or just grab Neanderthals) and add some future-tech. Then start clear-cutting and building whatever female-free all-bald paradise the Observers want. Jump ahead 10 years at a time, checking up to make sure there’s no pesky rebellions or anything and say, 100 years later, you have a nice sized city that a bunch of Observers move into and start expanding from and advancing. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/17 "2012-04-23T19:21:52Z")
That’s the problem with time travel writing apparently. Make the time traveler(s) Omniscient (all knowing) then it’s hard to write a story involving conflict because the time traveler(s) will know what will happen and be able to avoid any problems. Keep the time traveler(s) in the dark and people complain that he/she/they should be able to jump ahead and see what happens. Doctor Who handles this well, because the Doctor’s TARDIS doesn’t always go where he wants it to, plus there are time laws in place that limit his actions. # The Observers seem to have none of those problems, so once they take over an era, they should have no problem keeping absolute control. As I was searching around the Web I came across a discussion where someone made a good point. She said it’s obvious now that the reason that Olivia needed to be the mother of Henrietta is because the Cortexiphan is what allows Henrietta to not be scanned. But it’s not clear why Peter needed to be the father. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/18 "2012-04-23T19:34:13Z")
I’m surprised at the love this episode is getting. I thought the writing was horrible (liquified brains, most obvious “twist” ever) and to squeeze that in the middle of an on-going story arc was just weird. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/19 "2012-04-23T19:44:36Z")
Just because we’re talking about it doesn’t necessarily mean we love it. I personally thought that the episode was just so-so. But I do enjoy discussing the flaws; How out of left field the Observers turning evil is; And wondering why they threw in this seemingly filler episode; Unless **ChuckForbin** is correct and they’re setting up what season 5 will be about should Fringe get renewed. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473/20 "2012-04-23T20:02:03Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Ok–loved the episode, but…it really doesn’t make sense in the context of the bigger story. I’m getting a LOST vibe here\* Indeed. This felt like classic JJ Abrams in the worst possible way. “Crap. We’ve kind of written ourselves into a corner, and all our ongoing plot lines are pretty boring. Fuck it. Let’s throw everything out and start over.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-4-20-2012/619473.md?page=2)