# Fringe - January 13, 2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2012, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493 "2012-01-14T07:59:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/21 "2012-01-16T21:33:19Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > What? Did I miss a scene in this ep or something? Well in the last scene it appears that he is a shapeshifter, thus the real Broyles is worm food ☹ ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/22 "2012-01-16T23:34:48Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > I thought it was the bringing back of someone from the other universe which caused the fractures, or indeed, stopping someone from dying in that universe… I admit I have forgotten a lot of details. My brain is awash with the fantastical rules from so many different TV shows, I can’t keep them straight. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/23 "2012-01-17T03:39:28Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > We know why she has the migraines. It’s because Nina is gassing her for some unknown reason. I wonder if that’s the real Nina or a shapeshifter? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/24 "2012-01-17T04:24:48Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I wonder if that’s the real Nina or a shapeshifter? Excellent question. Nina is so shady I wouldn’t doubt if it’s the real her, but it very well could be a shape shifter. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/25 "2012-01-17T04:27:36Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I admit I have forgotten a lot of details. My brain is awash with the fantastical rules from so many different TV shows, I can’t keep them straight. Walter crosses over to give Peter the serum to save his life. The vial containing the serum gets shattered so Walter brings Peter back to our universe. After saving him he and his wife decide to keep him. Meanwhile, that one trip started cracks in the fabric of reality and their side was effected much worse than ours. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/26 "2012-01-17T04:36:00Z")
Oh, and sorry for a three-fer, but I just wanted to add that I’d like to see **Thomas Jerome Newton** ( **Sebastian Roché** ) make a return. And now that _Prime Suspect_ has been canceled it would be nice to see **Charlie** return. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/27 "2012-01-17T13:13:29Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > And come to think of it, Peter is being incredibly selfish. He wants both worlds to put aside their life and death struggles to help him get home. I can understand his desire, but to have an attitude of, “It’s not my fight” and then expecting the others to care about his problem… IMO, Peter has always been a completely selfish prick–I utterly loathe the character. (Not the actor). The character is a smug, self-satisfied, self-indulgent, smug prick. From his treatment of Walter in the first episodes onward. I like the fact that the writers seem to be acknowledging that. I don’t want Peter out of the show–he’s a great catalyst…I just want them to deal with the fact that Peter’s far more of a sociopath that Walter. That aside, I thought this was a freakin’ great episode. (Also, I don’t buy Peter’s hypothesis that these are two new Earths and his still exist. He changed time–these are the same two universes as before, just minus Peter) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/28 "2012-01-17T13:18:07Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Oh, and sorry for a three-fer, but I just wanted to add that I’d like to see **Thomas Jerome Newton** ( **Sebastian Roché** ) make a return. And now that _Prime Suspect_ has been canceled it would be nice to see **Charlie** return. Fully agree on Charlie. I miss that gravel-voiced little spud. The show really lost something when he left. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/29 "2012-01-17T21:44:31Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > IMO, Peter has always been a completely selfish prick–I utterly loathe the character. (Not the actor). The character is a smug, self-satisfied, self-indulgent, smug prick. From his treatment of Walter in the first episodes onward. > > I like the fact that the writers seem to be acknowledging that. I don’t want Peter out of the show–he’s a great catalyst…I just want them to deal with the fact that Peter’s far more of a sociopath that Walter. Yeah, but as time went on Peter seemed to be softening. But this, yeah yeah, your worlds are in danger, whatever, just get me home, type attitude shows he hasn’t changed much at all. Or he’s reverted back. > [@](#): > > That aside, I thought this was a freakin’ great episode. Agreed. > [@](#): > > (Also, I don’t buy Peter’s hypothesis that these are two new Earths and his still exist. He changed time–these are the same two universes as before, just minus Peter) I’m beginning to wonder if maybe this isn’t some sort of parallel timeline. It could explain how Peter still exits. He jumped from one timeline to the other. Maybe it’s like the _Back to the Future_ timeline theory, where when a change is made another timeline branches off from there. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/30 "2012-01-17T21:47:00Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Fully agree on Charlie. I miss that gravel-voiced little spud. The show really lost something when he left. Yeah, and although dead in the main universe he’s still alive in the alternate one. So here’s hoping the writers bring him back. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/31 "2012-01-19T01:03:09Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Well in the last scene it appears that he is a shapeshifter, thus the real Broyles is worm food ☹ Well then, it does appear I have indeed missed a scene, because I don’t recall that at all. Guess I’ll be checking out the ep on On Demand. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/32 "2012-01-19T01:17:07Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Walter crosses over to give Peter the serum to save his life. The vial containing the serum gets shattered so Walter brings Peter back to our universe. After saving him he and his wife decide to keep him. > > Meanwhile, that one trip started cracks in the fabric of reality and their side was effected much worse than ours. Thought it was more like “Walter brings Peter back to our universe, but the device for crossing over is destroyed in the process, and Walter doesn’t try too hard to recreate it”. That being said, I don’t think Walternate ever realized that Walter’s original plan (to visit the alternate universe and give Peter the cure, that he knew that Walternate would not find) was altruistic - from Walternate’s POV, Walternate was working on a cure, and had every hope to come up with one, when Walter kidnapped Peter - and wrecked the alternate universe to do it. Walternate’s not the type to believe Walter, even if Walter choose to tell his story, and Walter feels too guilty to tell it, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/33 "2012-01-19T02:13:47Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Well then, it does appear I have indeed missed a scene, because I don’t recall that at all. Guess I’ll be checking out the ep on On Demand. 🙂 They don’t show Broyles getting killed. At the end of the ep when **Olivia** and **Lincoln** ask **Broyles** for some leniency pursuing the phone call trace, after they leave **Broyles** calls **David Robert Jones** to warn him. And **Jones** is behind the new shape shifters. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/34 "2012-01-19T02:21:22Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Thought it was more like “Walter brings Peter back to our universe, but the device for crossing over is destroyed in the process, and Walter doesn’t try too hard to recreate it”. That being said, I don’t think Walternate ever realized that Walter’s original plan (to visit the alternate universe and give Peter the cure, that he knew that Walternate would not find) was altruistic - from Walternate’s POV, Walternate was working on a cure, and had every hope to come up with one, when Walter kidnapped Peter - and wrecked the alternate universe to do it. Walternate’s not the type to believe Walter, even if Walter choose to tell his story, and Walter feels too guilty to tell it, anyway. In the original time-line, with his shape-shifter spies and whatnot Walternate seemed to know an awful lot about what was going on in our universe. I think he figured things out, but was still pissed. It wasn’t that bringing Peter here was so bad, but he never brought him back. And maybe it was an accident that Walter caused vortexes to open, but it doesn’t change the fact that millions died because of him. Regardless of intent, Walter screwed over Walternate and his universe. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/35 "2012-01-19T03:08:38Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > In the original time-line, with his shape-shifter spies and whatnot Walternate seemed to know an awful lot about what was going on in our universe. > > I think he figured things out, but was still pissed. It wasn’t that bringing Peter here was so bad, but he never brought him back. And maybe it was an accident that Walter caused vortexes to open, but it doesn’t change the fact that millions died because of him. > > Regardless of intent, Walter screwed over Walternate and his universe. You could be right about what Walternate knows; you’re certainly right that Walter is responsible for the deaths of millions - part of the arc of the series was the growing realization that the actions that the other universe is taking against ours have a very understandable justification. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/36 "2012-01-20T01:50:02Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > They don’t show Broyles getting killed. At the end of the ep when **Olivia** and **Lincoln** ask **Broyles** for some leniency pursuing the phone call trace, after they leave **Broyles** calls **David Robert Jones** to warn him. And **Jones** is behind the new shape shifters. Yeah, rewatched the scene in question, just shows that Broyles is in league with the shapeshifters, not necessarily that he is one (though certainly he could be). ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493/37 "2012-01-20T03:58:44Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Yeah, rewatched the scene in question, just shows that Broyles is in league with the shapeshifters, not necessarily that he is one (though certainly he could be). I could be wrong, but I’m positive that he’s been replaced. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-13-2012/609493.md?page=1)