# Fringe - January 20, 2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 21, 2012, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203 "2012-01-21T06:36:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/1 "2012-01-21T06:36:20Z")
Pretty good episode. It’s funny that Walternate can’t help Peter. And getting off track for a minute, one thing that hasn’t been answered, and frankly, I don’t think can be answered, is if the machine was built for Peter and he died as a child in this timeline, then who activated the machine? Apparently the Walters built it as before, but who activated it? OK, back on track. So, Nina is even worse in this timeline. Makes me wonder if Jones was working for her in the original timeline and the steeling the battery from her arm was staged, or if he tired in this new timeline, got caught, and now she’s using him. Alt-Astrid was funny. On the official “spoiler” page, in an episode or two she’ll pay a visit to our Astrid. That could be interesting and entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/2 "2012-01-21T16:10:08Z")
As I’m watching this season, I start getting caught up in it, then I’m reminded, oh wait, these aren’t “our” versions of the characters, so what do I care what happens to them. I guess I should care to the extent that what happens to them may affect Peter getting back to the “real” versions of them, but I’m not as invested as I would be if it were the regular world we came to know and love. On the other hand, watching the actors portray different versions of the characters is fun. Astrid was especially entertaining this episode. What a great opportunity for these people to showcase their talent. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/3 "2012-01-21T16:24:21Z")
The ending reveal of Nina I thought was going to be Astrid in some kind of super autistic brain mastermind moment similar to what they did on Alphas. I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised since we already saw Nina acting evil. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/4 "2012-01-21T17:07:41Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > if the machine was built for Peter and he died as a child in this timeline, then who activated the machine? Apparently the Walters built it as before, but who activated it? Remember that the machine was built in the future and sent to the past. So in this timeline, since Peter was dead, it wouldn’t have been built for him to activate it. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/5 "2012-01-21T17:46:47Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > As I’m watching this season, I start getting caught up in it, then I’m reminded, oh wait, these aren’t “our” versions of the characters, so what do I care what happens to them. I guess I should care to the extent that what happens to them may affect Peter getting back to the “real” versions of them, but I’m not as invested as I would be if it were the regular world we came to know and love. > > On the other hand, watching the actors portray different versions of the characters is fun. Astrid was especially entertaining this episode. What a great opportunity for these people to showcase their talent. Yeah, I was really upset over them changing the timeline, but the episodes are getting better and while Googling Fringe Cancellation I came across [this interview](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/12/season-4-fringe-back-to-where-youve-never-been_n_1201422.html) where executive producer Wyman says, > [@](#): > > Jeff and I were actually shocked that people would think for a second that we would have one of those sequences where, poof, the character is gone and everything that you knew about our characters and everything that you learned didn’t really happen or is gone. We would be terribly frustrated if we came across that, being fans of television ourselves. So we would never in a million years do that. Which hopefully means they have a plan to undo this timeline (fingers crossed). > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Remember that the machine was built in the future and sent to the past. So in this timeline, since Peter was dead, it wouldn’t have been built for him to activate it. Good point. That could very well be. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/6 "2012-01-21T18:16:04Z")
I gotta say, if they planned on undoing this timeline, they made a huge mistake spending so much time and so many episodes on it, because it has most likely caused their show to get cancelled at the end of the season. I am fast-forwarding past parts of the show, something I never did before, simply because I don’t give a shit about these characters or this plotline. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/7 "2012-01-21T18:55:57Z")
I’m not a stupid person, and I’m starting to feel like “Fringe” is too much mental work for me to follow it. My husband told me last night that there are four universes now - I totally didn’t get that, and I think I’ve seen every episode this year. I want Monster of the Week back, with a light dusting of over-arching conspiracy plot. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/8 "2012-01-21T19:03:49Z")
I want to pop in here and say Lance Reddick was on my flight to SLC from BWI last night _while Fringe was on the air_. I thought, ‘Gee, you’d think if he wants to save his job he’ll watch his own show.’ But I didn’t ask him that, he’d have shredded me into pieces in the name of Greater Good. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/9 "2012-01-21T19:07:01Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > I want to pop in here and say Lance Reddick was on my flight to SLC from BWI last night _while Fringe was on the air_. I thought, ‘Gee, you’d think if he wants to save his job he’ll watch his own show.’ But I didn’t ask him that, he’d have shredded me into pieces in the name of Greater Good. I’m sure he has a DVR. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/10 "2012-01-21T21:39:01Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > My husband told me last night that there are four universes now There are? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/11 "2012-01-21T22:41:38Z")
Sort of. Since this is a new timeline you could say there are the two universes of Peter’s old timeline and then the two universes of the timeline Peter is in now. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/12 "2012-01-21T22:43:07Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > I’m sure he has a DVR. And I doubt he’s a Neilsen family. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/13 "2012-01-22T02:18:08Z")
there \_ are \_ 4 \_ universes! Whats interesting to me - is it felt like this latest episode took 2 or 3 hours to play out - while the season 3 premier of Justified felt like it was over in 15 mins. I want to see how they play this out - but its gotten old, confusing, and like anohter poster said - I don’t care that this Nina is the evil - it would have been interesting if ‘our’ Nina was evil or our other broyles was a shapeshifter (or in league with them) but these ‘twists’ seem more for the actors benefit than anything in the story. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/14 "2012-01-22T04:16:57Z")
Here’s why the executive producers say they did what they did, > [@](#): > > JW: When we first decided that the storyline was going to be where Peter would disappear as a consequence to what he had done, we knew very well what the thematic elements were that we wanted to investigate this year, and what we were trying to say together as artists about the way we see the world right now. We’re really, really interested in the concept that life is valued by the connections that you make and the impact you have on others and what impact do they have on us: How do they make us better people? How do we make other people better for knowing us? We just think that’s really something worthy of writing about. So basically this whole season is, “It’s a wonderful life.” ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/15 "2012-01-22T13:20:47Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I’m not a stupid person, and I’m starting to feel like “Fringe” is too much mental work for me to follow it. My husband told me last night that there are four universes now - I totally didn’t get that, and I think I’ve seen every episode this year. The theory is that The Machine didn’t change time at all. What it did was shove Peter (who there’s apparently only one of, in all the universes) into a whole new parallel universe. So there’s Earth-Walter (where our Peter grew up), Earth-Walternate (where our Peter was stolen from), Earth-Walternate-2 (where some other Peter was stolen from), and Earth-Water-2 (where Walter-2 stole Peter-2 but failed to save him). The machine didn’t change time so the Earths became the Earths-2 versions, it moved Peter from the regular Earths to the Earths-2. Which, if true, I hate. > [@](#): > > I want Monster of the Week back, with a light dusting of over-arching conspiracy plot. 🙂 I don’t want Monster of the Week, I want Monster-Every-Third-Week with the war between Walter and Walternate’s earths heating up and coming to a head…and resolved. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/16 "2012-01-22T13:48:24Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > The theory is that The Machine didn’t change time at all. What it did was shove Peter (who there’s apparently only one of, in all the universes) into a whole new parallel universe. So there’s Earth-Walter (where our Peter grew up), Earth-Walternate (where our Peter was stolen from), Earth-Walternate-2 (where some other Peter was stolen from), and Earth-Water-2 (where Walter-2 stole Peter-2 but failed to save him). The machine didn’t change time so the Earths became the Earths-2 versions, it moved Peter from the regular Earths to the Earths-2. > > Which, if true, I hate. It has to be true, because if it weren’t, Peter wouldn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/17 "2012-01-22T14:40:09Z")
Nah 🙂 It could easily be handwaved as “He was the cause of the change, and therefore was outside the timestream when the timeline changed and wasn’t affected.” It’s been done in science fiction since the 1940s and probably much earlier. (See Ray Bradbury’s “A Sound of Thunder” for the classic example. The guys who stepped on the butterfly came back to the now-changed present with their memories of the original timeline. Same thing with Peter. He activated the machine and could have been protected from the time-change.) I’m not saying it’s a good solution or an easily filmable one, but it makes the matter much less cut-and-dried. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/18 "2012-01-22T17:50:32Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Nah 🙂 It could easily be handwaved as “He was the cause of the change, and therefore was outside the timestream when the timeline changed and wasn’t affected.” > > It’s been done in science fiction since the 1940s and probably much earlier. (See Ray Bradbury’s “A Sound of Thunder” for the classic example. The guys who stepped on the butterfly came back to the now-changed present with their memories of the original timeline. Same thing with Peter. He activated the machine and could have been protected from the time-change.) > > I’m not saying it’s a good solution or an easily filmable one, but it makes the matter much less cut-and-dried. But it didn’t make sense then and still doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/19 "2012-01-22T17:52:35Z")
I’m a latecomer to the series, so I’m just getting to know David Robert Jones. He certainly has given this season a much-needed shot in the arm! ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203/20 "2012-01-22T17:58:02Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > > [@Fenris](#): > > > > Nah 🙂 It could easily be handwaved as “He was the cause of the change, and therefore was outside the timestream when the timeline changed and wasn’t affected.” > > > > It’s been done in science fiction since the 1940s and probably much earlier. (See Ray Bradbury’s “A Sound of Thunder” for the classic example. The guys who stepped on the butterfly came back to the now-changed present with their memories of the original timeline. Same thing with Peter. He activated the machine and could have been protected from the time-change.) > > > > I’m not saying it’s a good solution or an easily filmable one, but it makes the matter much less cut-and-dried. > > But it didn’t make sense then and still doesn’t. Agreed. I think it’s a new timeline because the Observers remember Peter growing up. But what gets me is, the Observers had to be the ones to change the timeline, not the machine. Connecting two universes isn’t going to erase Peter. The Observer who saved Peter from drowning deciding not to do it after Peter joins the universes is what had to cause the new timeline. And frankly there is no good reason for it. It comes back to the executive producers wanted to show just how much Peter changed everybody’s lives. There is no good in-world explanation for it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-january-20-2012/610203.md?page=2)