# fringe on US flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817 "2017-08-16T19:39:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/1 "2017-08-16T19:39:08Z")
I gather there is some sort of…_thing_ that is associated with fringe libertarians that concerns their views on the, well, gold _fringe_ found on US flags. I don’t particularly want to have to google and sift through nine layers of conspiracy theory muck to find out what the whole gold fringe thing is about, so I’d appreciate if someone could just tell me quick and dirty what it’s about. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/2 "2017-08-16T19:46:22Z")
Idiots often associated with “sovereign citizens” or “freemen on the land” claim that the gold fringe on a flag in the court room means that the court is an admiralty court, and therefore magically powerless to rule on any non-admiralty issues. It’s bullshit, but YouTube has plenty of videos showing the above and aforesaid idiots arguing the point. The best ones end in a righteous tasering. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/3 "2017-08-16T19:46:36Z")
A Federal court that displays a flag with a gold fringe is actually an Admiralty Court, and has no jurisdiction on land. It only has jurisdiction on Maritime cases. Or so the conspiracy theory goes. It has been rejected in court many, many times, but they keep trying, bless their hearts. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/4 "2017-08-16T19:53:32Z")
It’s a loony argument adopted by _some_ Sovereign Citizen and Freeman on the Land types. The general idea is that gold fringe on a flag is some thing you see on naval vessels; ergo a fringed flag in a courtroom makes it an _Admiralty Court_, and consequently without jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/5 "2017-08-16T19:55:11Z")
Even kooks who espouse these sorts of positions reject the “fring on the flag” argument, as often as not. [https://www.theamericanview.com/is-there-a-significance-of-the-gold-fringe-on-the-american-flag/](https://www.theamericanview.com/is-there-a-significance-of-the-gold-fringe-on-the-american-flag/) There’s no harm in Googling for these topics: you read their logic, you see its flawed, and you’ve learned something that doesn’t make sense. You’re in no danger from being annoyed by this than other fairy tale. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/6 "2017-08-16T19:56:01Z")
Good thing the fringed flag is in my office, rather than in my hearing room, or I’d have to start applying the law of the seas! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/7 "2017-08-16T19:56:59Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > ergo a fringed flag in a courtroom makes it an _Admiralty Court_, and consequently without jurisdiction. Presumably this argument is raised only AFTER a judge makes a ruling not to their liking? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/8 "2017-08-16T20:00:16Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Good thing the fringed flag is in my office, rather than in my hearing room, or I’d have to start applying the law of the seas! :rolleyes: but then you could make people walk the plank… ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/9 "2017-08-16T20:31:54Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > but then you could make people walk the plank… Is keel-hauling someone on dry land as effective … ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/10 "2017-08-16T21:12:54Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Presumably this argument is raised only AFTER a judge makes a ruling not to their liking? Not necessarily. Sometimes they start objecting right out of the gate…those are the ones that tend to end up doing the taser dance. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/11 "2017-08-16T21:38:17Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Is keel-hauling someone on dry land as effective … Would you want to be dragged through somebody’s basement? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/12 "2017-08-16T21:43:17Z")
Dang, I can hardly wait for the next “talk like a pirate” day! 😃 I recall the 7th Circuit’s ceremonial courtroom had a paddle or something mounted on the wall. At some point someone told me that represented that admiralty cases are occasionally heard there, but I never looked into it. I also seem to recall hearing in law school that admiralty is one of the very few areas in which an atty can specialize. Not sure what others - maybe patent? Again, never checked into it, whether there even is such a thing as atty specialization… ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/13 "2017-08-16T22:16:23Z")
As far as I know, the gold fringe means that you paid extra to get the deluxe rich guy flag. I got one for a friend to celebrate his gaining citizenship. I wasn’t asked to prove I was in the Navy. Just to pay the extra fifteen bucks that the fringed one cost. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/14 "2017-08-16T22:53:28Z")
BTW, there is a 1999 document currently maintained by the ADL entitled “Idiot Legal Arguments”. The index provides a fine list of such things as the “fringe on the flag” argument, with links to court decisions, if you can wade through the unformatted text: [http://web.archive.org/web/20121022210245/http://www.adl.org/mwd/suss1.asp](http://web.archive.org/web/20121022210245/http://www.adl.org/mwd/suss1.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/15 "2017-08-16T23:02:24Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Presumably this argument is raised only AFTER a judge makes a ruling not to their liking? Judges pretty much _never_ make a ruling to their liking. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/16 "2017-08-16T23:03:31Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I also seem to recall hearing in law school that admiralty is one of the very few areas in which an atty can specialize. Not sure what others - maybe patent? Again, never checked into it, whether there even is such a thing as atty specialization… Most admissions to state bar associations and individual court bar societies in the United States do not specify any particular type of legal specialty. However there are some tribunals with their own bar requirements. For example, to practice patent law before the Patent and Trademark Office, a lawyer must meet special requirements and be admitted to the patent bar. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/17 "2017-08-17T01:18:36Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > I gather there is some sort of…_thing_ that is associated with fringe libertarians that concerns their views on the, well, gold _fringe_ found on US flags. I don’t particularly want to have to google and sift through nine layers of conspiracy theory muck to find out what the whole gold fringe thing is about, so I’d appreciate if someone could just tell me quick and dirty what it’s about. Thanks. Why is there a fringe? Do some flags just want to get dressed up and be fancy? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/18 "2017-08-17T01:31:54Z")
Pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/19 "2017-08-17T02:44:03Z")
It’s kinda like spats, whitewall tires, and chrome bumpers. But for flags. Pimp my wave! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817/20 "2017-08-17T02:52:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Most admissions to state bar associations and individual court bar societies in the United States do not specify any particular type of legal specialty. However there are some tribunals with their own bar requirements. For example, to practice patent law before the Patent and Trademark Office, a lawyer must meet special requirements and be admitted to the patent bar. That sounds like a very boring bar. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fringe-on-us-flag/793817.md?page=2)