# Frist adopted cats for medical experiments **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 4, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612 "2003-01-04T15:25:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/41 "2003-01-04T19:29:40Z")
Nope, lying under oath is an impeachable offense, tough. Thanks for your contibution as well. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/42 "2003-01-04T19:41:01Z")
Once again we see how **any** issue with **any** Republican compels further regurgitation of how Clinton got a blowjob then hemmed and hawed about it before the drooling perversions of the Starr chamber. Props. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/43 "2003-01-04T19:43:13Z")
Why is it that if one mentions lying under oath, you immediately think of Clinton? _I_ didn’t mention him by name. Is the association really that strong in your mind? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/44 "2003-01-04T19:46:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Lets see a cite for the contract that Frist broke. This was back in the 70’s. For all you know, the shelter had a ‘first come, first serve, all you can eat kitten’ policy. > > And lets see a cite for the ‘torture’ assertion you make, **Gobear** \*\* Tee hee! Let’s all ask for impossible-to-obtain cites! You’re right: since my only information about this is from an account of his memoirs, I can’t prove the contract specified that he wouldn’t use the cats for experimentation. If he just “promised” that he’d give them a good home, didn’t sign a paper to that effect, then he’s merely a despicable liar, rather than a despicable liar-on-paper. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/45 "2003-01-04T20:17:36Z")
Heck, for that matter, why don’t medical students just go out and rob graves to find bodies to practice on? I mean, the people are dead anyway, and if it furthers their skills, so be it. (Yes, this was done in the past.) I was never comfortable with the idea of “pig lab” (although I never had to do it, since I’m not a surgeon), but I understand the necessity of the exercise. Getting animals under false pretenses to practice on at home, however, is offensive in the extreme; it perpetuates the now-receding cold and inhuman stereotype of doctors. It would take a lot to convince me that Harvard Med did not offer Dr. Frist ample opportunity to practice his skills without resorting to these disturbing methods. Maybe med school and residency were different back then, but I know a lot of people training to be surgeons right now, and they would never do such a thing, and I can’t see their skill suffering for it. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/46 "2003-01-04T20:24:05Z")
Apparently, there is, indeed, more than one way to skin a cat. Some are more entertaining than others. Does Dr. Frist actually say that he was seeking to further his skills, and that no alternatives were available. Would that hold water, under the circumstances? Most importantly, what was the level of suffering he put these animals to. If he had no option (which seems frankly unlikely, but I don’t have any first hand knowledge), then I suppose some justification could be inferred. But if a conjecture of noble purpose isn’t supportable, we have only some fairly creepy alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/47 "2003-01-04T20:35:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTA \* > **most people who do that sort of thing find themselves either in jail or a mental hospital, and certainly on some kind of serial killer watch list.** Heh, I thought the same thing when I first heard about this. I hope there was a big difference between his experiments and say, Jeffery Dahmer’s childhood “experiments” with animals. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/48 "2003-01-04T20:42:09Z")
To all appearances, Dr. Frist has done a lot more good in the world than the clowns who are intent on slandering him here. Comparing him to Jeffery Dahmer. :rolleyes: Given the lives that he’s saved in his career, do you realize how pathetic that makes you sound? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/49 "2003-01-04T20:43:22Z")
Read the OP, **Brutus**. Performinmg vivisection counts as torture. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/50 "2003-01-04T20:45:28Z")
Chill out **DR** , I wasn’t seriously suggesting he’s a serial killer. Lighten up, do you realize how pathetic you sound? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/51 "2003-01-04T21:04:47Z")
You know, I’ve always liked Steve McQueen, and in the film _Tom Horn_, he made the following observation about a popular prize fighter back in the Wild West days: “Geronimo is so great that Corbett there would have to stand on his mother’s shoulders just to kiss his ass.” I don’t know if Dr. Frist is as great as Geronimo, but I know Revtim’s mother by rights ought to be _awfully_ tall. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/52 "2003-01-04T21:31:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\*Tee hee! Let’s all ask for impossible-to-obtain cites! > > You’re right: since my only information about this is from an account of his memoirs, I can’t prove the contract specified that he wouldn’t use the cats for experimentation. > > If he just “promised” that he’d give them a good home, didn’t sign a paper to that effect, then he’s merely a despicable liar, rather than a despicable liar-on-paper. > > Daniel \*\* Uh, ya. Lets ask for ‘impossible to obtain’ cites. But only in the case of ‘impossible to prove assertions’. Fair? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/53 "2003-01-04T21:58:04Z")
Wow, complete lack of a sense of humor. I pity you, DR. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/54 "2003-01-04T22:06:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTA \* > \*\*Once again we see how **any** issue with **any** Republican compels further regurgitation of how Clinton got a blowjob then hemmed and hawed about it before the drooling perversions of the Starr chamber. Props. \*\* Sorry. I guess I should just let the allusion posted by **presidebt** go unanswered. Gotcha. I didn’t even mention the name of your godhead, just retorted in kind. Oh, and I’m an independent, FYI, but I’ll be damned if I’m gonna support a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/55 "2003-01-04T22:22:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*Oh, and I’m an independent, FYI, but I’ll be damned if I’m gonna support a criminal. \*\* Both Bush and Chaney had convictions for drunk driving. Or don’t you count misdemeanors as criminal acts? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/56 "2003-01-04T22:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTA \* > in his 1989 autobiography, Sen. Bill Frist ® freely admits that while he was a young student at Harvard Med he would frequent the local animal shelters and adopt cute fuzzy kitties, promising the shelter that he would give them a good and loving home. > > He would then take the cats home and perform all manner of surgical vivisection and amateur medical experiments on said cute fuzzy kitties! > > Naturally he now affirms, in proper politico fashion, that what he did was wrong and he expresses remorse. I certainly agree with him that it was textbook “wrong” behavior. In fact, most people who do that sort of thing find themselves either in jail or a mental hospital, and certainly on some kind of serial killer watch list. But in the post-Lott GOP-world, they hand you the keys to the kingdom (blacks vote, cats don’t). > > Allow me to rephrase: Aieeee!! Dicing up kittycats for personal enlightenment?! Sick fuck! What did you use for anaethesia? Nothing? I **dare** you to run for President! Ripper! Gah! And the GOP holding you up as a role model! Jeez! OK, now that some of us have gotten the initial screaming out of our systems let’s revisit the OP. First of all - yes, it was despicable to say he’d give some kitties a good home when his intention was to practice various surgical techniques on them. Apparently he has said as much, expressed remorse, and otherwise made some atonement for this sin. Second - did he or didn’t he provide anesthetia? To my mind there is a major difference between experimenting on concious vs. unconcious animals. Did the memoir state one thing or another, or are you jumping to conclusions? Third - I don’t know if this goes on today, but I’m pretty sure in the not-too-distant past animal shelters WERE a source of experimental lab animals. C. Everett Koop has made some reference to this sort of thing in his training many many years ago, and to using animals to practice new surgical techniques on. In his case, this was done with proper anesthesia, and only after the initial details had been worked out on deceased animals (which might also be obtained from animal shelters, for all I know). Icky, but unfortunately surgery still requires practice on living creatures. Fourth - it’s really disturbing to think this, but what surgeons and serial killers do really ISN’T that far apart. If Bill Frist had no medical degree and used a saw to open someone’s chest and cut out their heart he’d be in an orange jumpsuit in front of judge with the public demanding his death. But because he’s a heart surgeon he was paid enormous amounts of money and greatly admired for his skill in sawing open peoples’ chests and removing their hearts (he also put in another heart - obtained by sawing open someone else’s chest - and sewed them back up. Details). What matters is not so much the actions here but the intent. In other words, no matter how humanely done, “dicing up” cats _purely for your own amusement_ is evil. Doing it to learn surgery could be justifiable. Fifth - a lot of people don’t give a damn about animals. Sorry, folks, it’s true. I think it’s horrible, too, but I’ve met a lot of people in my life who think animals feel no pain, or that their pain doesn’t matter, and have no qualms about causing agonizng deaths. I had a boyfriend once whose mother supplied her sons with gasoline and matches _for the express purpose of catching neighborhood cats and setting them on fire_. She thought this was perfectly normal and couldn’t understand why it upset people, since she had been taught from an early age all cats were evil and tools of the devil. I’ve known other folks with similar callous attitudes. Maybe earlier in his life Senator Frist was one of these folks and he’s since learned differently. I don’t know. I don’t think anyone on this thread knows, either. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/57 "2003-01-04T22:31:17Z")
I am a Democrat, a liberal, an animal rights advocate, and a former volunteer docent at a nearby wildlife park. I am also a cat lover. Doghouse doesn’t sound pathetic to me at all. You, Revtim, were using a common and unreasonable propoganda technique and deserved to be called on it. I did plenty of stupid things in my twenties which I later regretted. Senator Frist confessed what he had done and acknowledged that it wasn’t right. I doubt that anyone would have known about it if he hadn’t written about it himself. elucidator said: > [@](#): > > **I have heard rumors** … to the effect that he is the original source of the Anonymous Amendment to the Homeland Security Bill. The idea of indemnifying any corporation from legal vexations is troubling enough. But that **…it was done under cover of darkness and the perpetrator didn’t even have the guts to attach his name to it…speaks volumes.** No offense to you personally elucidator, but \*\*rumors shouldn’t “speak volumes.” \*\* Although I disagree with his politics, he is a gentleman and a great surgeon. He comes from a family of physicians who are known for their benevolence and generosity. Among other contributions, he and his family have been particularly generous to animal care and education through the local zoo. Why not pick on some of the **real** sleeze-bags in office? They abound! ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/58 "2003-01-04T22:43:23Z")
urghh! i mean urghh! oh, and yes, i’m a med student. i went from “here is a dead mouse, dissect it.” to “here is a dead person, dissect them.” in one easy step. animal subjects are lab animals raised in sterile conditions, and VERY tough regulations ensure that they are treated humanely. no sudent here is forced to participate in animal experiments, if there is another alternative… i’ll be doing a pharmacoeconomics project and a paper on drug storage so i don’t have to inject rats with interleukins. seriously, what did he hope to achieve with vivisecting cats? he should know enough to realise humans are rather different… any surgical procedure he wished to practice could be carried out on a donor human cadaver or he could have spent a few more hours observing other surgeons at work. if it had to be an animal, it should have been in a lab, with proper scientific procedures followed, properly written up, and accountable. it’s not legal, it’s not ethical, it’s not right, and i sincerely doubt any of his patients benefitted one iota from it. i hope the courts get him for something, even if it’s for breach of contract (assuming he signed something when he adopted the animals). sick bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Kantalooppi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@Kantalooppi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kantalooppi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/59 "2003-01-04T22:51:35Z")
Every time you vote Democratic, Bill Frist kills a kitten. Ow! Stop throwing things at me! ---
**Author:** ![shulmahn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@shulmahn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shulmahn)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612/60 "2003-01-04T22:58:57Z")
From [consumerfreedom.com](http://www.consumerfreedom.com/headline_detail.cfm?HEADLINE_ID=1730) (the actual post has many more hyperlinks in it) > [@](#): > > PETA calls the kettle black > Posted On January 2, 2003 > > On Tuesday People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) attracted the media’s attention by dredging up a 25-year-old animal cruelty claim against incoming Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN). But curiously enough, no one seems to be talking about PETA’s own history of killing defenseless animals. Just some food for thought… _edited by UncleBeer - See below_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-adopted-cats-for-medical-experiments/146612.md?page=4)