# Frist calls for surrender to Taliban - repercussions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 2, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052 "2006-10-02T23:41:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/1 "2006-10-02T23:41:02Z")
From the [International Herald-Tribune:](http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php) > [@](#): > > U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said Monday that the Afghan guerrilla war can never be won militarily and called for efforts to bring the Taliban and their supporters into the Afghan government. > > The Tennessee Republican said he had learned from briefings that Taliban fighters were too numerous and had too much popular support to be defeated by military means. > > “You need to bring them into a more transparent type of government,” Frist said during a brief visit to a U.S. and Romanian military base in the southern Taliban stronghold of Qalat. “And if that’s accomplished we’ll be successful.” > > …Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida accompanying Frist, said negotiating with the Taliban was not “out of the question” but that fighters who refused to join the political process would have to be defeated. > > “A political solution is how it’s all going to be solved,” he said. I personally think that Frist is a scum-sucking waste of oxygen, but I really have to wonder how this is going to play to the Republicans’ core voters, especially since it’s coming out just a month before the elections. I mean, doesn’t this effectively undermine the GOP’s entire “We’re stronger against terrorism” argument, when the Senate Majority Leader is effectively advocating throwing in the towel? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/2 "2006-10-02T23:44:40Z")
Huh. You went for GD, I went for a Pit thread. Repercussions? With any luck, Frist’s ambitions to be POTUS have just been taken off life support. It’s probably best that they were put out of their misery. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/3 "2006-10-02T23:55:45Z")
In the current perfect storm of blazing shit, I doubt anyone would notice if he commited _seppuku_ on the Capitol steps. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/4 "2006-10-03T00:33:37Z")
Perhaps some of the NATO allies could find ways to add more military power to the Afghan effort. It sure would be nice if maybe they had a lot of troops involved in some unnecessary war they could pull them away from. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/5 "2006-10-03T00:33:58Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] In the current perfect storm of blazing shit, I doubt anyone would notice if he commited _seppuku_ on the Capitol steps. [/QUOTE] Or would care. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/6 "2006-10-03T01:07:20Z")
Frist now says he was [misquoted](http://www.volpac.org/index.cfm?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=483&Month=10&Year=2006) (The link appears to be down at the moment). I don’t think his alternate explanation deviates much from his original: > [@](#): > > I’m currently overseas visiting our troops in Afghanistan, but I wanted to take a moment to address an Associated Press story titled, “Frist: Taliban Should Be in Afghan Gov’t.” The story badly distorts my remarks and takes them out of context. > > First of all, let me make something clear: The Taliban is a murderous band of terrorists who’ve oppressed the people of Afghanistan with their hateful ideology long enough. America’s overthrow of the Taliban and support for responsible, democratic governance in Afghanistan is a great accomplishment that should not and will not be reversed. > > Having discussed the situation with commanders on the ground, I believe that we cannot stabilize Afghanistan purely through military means. Our counter-insurgency strategy must win hearts and minds and persuade moderate Islamists potentially sympathetic to the Taliban to accept the legitimacy of the Afghan national government and democratic political processes. > > National reconciliation is a necessary and an urgent priority … but America will never negotiate with terrorists or support their entry into Afghanistan’s government. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/7 "2006-10-03T01:35:04Z")
Is there one sane person in the entire nation who actually believes Bill Frist (R - Cat Killer) has a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected our next president? Note: I said sane person, so James Dobson doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/8 "2006-10-03T01:56:36Z")
The “misquote” claim surprises me. I’d have thought he was a stalking horse: someone who is near but not in the administration who floats an intelligent idea and, if he is not roasted alive, the administration can then follow up on the idea. I suppose that that could have still been the situation and his “misquote” claim is the result of a whole wall of fire that engulfed him privately before the hordes of the Radio Right could call for him to be removed from office in five weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/9 "2006-10-03T02:11:15Z")
Can you imagine what the Republicans would be saying if a Democract suggested this? “Not only do they want to cut and run, they want to surrender and give Afghanistan back to the terrorists!” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/10 "2006-10-03T02:31:48Z")
No, no, no! It’s simply a theological disagreement amongst true Republicans, who worship private property and entrepenuership! The current situation oppresses the opium growers (family farmers, each and ever one!) and curtails their access to the Open Market. It is not their responsibility to what end their harvest is turned, much like tobacco growers and distributors. To put it bluntly and omit all sarcasm: it may not hit the Big Boards, it may not be as closely noted as the price of light, sweet crude oil…but the price of opium matters. A lot. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/11 "2006-10-03T03:06:11Z")
This reminds me of the time a few years ago when Bush was asked if we could win the war on terror, and he said: “I don’t think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the — those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world.” He then promptly backtracked, as I recall. I found it tragically humorous - the one time the guy says something thoughtful, nuanced, and reflective of reality… he takes it back. So it would seem with Frist. Although I’ll point out that while his statement showed some connection with reality, I disagree with the idea put forward. I don’t think the Taliban has any role in a real government. But, I wish our system permitted actual debate instead of merely opportunities to shout, “See, I told you he’s a moron!!!” ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/12 "2006-10-03T03:14:20Z")
[QUOTE=Orbifold] Repercussions? With any luck, Frist’s ambitions to be POTUS have just been taken off life support. It’s probably best that they were put out of their misery. [/QUOTE] I’ve studied the video and if Frist is taken off life support I think he will still live. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/13 "2006-10-03T04:11:03Z")
This idea is the key to eventual victory in Afghanistan and Iraq: “I believe that we cannot stabilize Afghanistan purely through military means. Our counter-insurgency strategy must win hearts and minds and persuade moderate Islamists potentially sympathetic to the Taliban to accept the legitimacy of the Afghan national government and democratic political processes.” If you can’t get enough people to buy into the western ideal of society, it won’t work. The arab version of Joe Sixpack has to want that society for his own best interests. If the people in Iraq and Afghanistan are unwilling to stand up for this kind of society, we will eventually have to wash our hands of them. Europe and Japan appreciated the Marshall Plan. The Arab world may not be as astute. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/14 "2006-10-03T05:53:49Z")
“De-Ba’athification” seems to have been a disaster in Iraq, so I can’t really slam Frist for proposing something different in Afghanistan. (I _do_ think it’s amazing we’re having this conversation at all with regard to that country.) I don’t know if it will do anything to the GOP. They can’t say anything that people will hear over the clamor from the Foley scandal right now. Frist himself is out of office in a few months, so by the time he starts putting a Presidential run together, this may be long forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/15 "2006-10-03T06:01:59Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] If you can’t get enough people to buy into the western ideal of society, it won’t work. The arab version of Joe Sixpack has to want that society for his own best interests. If the people in Iraq and Afghanistan are unwilling to stand up for this kind of society, we will eventually have to wash our hands of them. [/QUOTE] First off, Afghans are not Arabs. Secondly, part of the reason Afghanistan is in turmoil is because it became the site of a proxy war between the Soviets and the US. Once the Soviets withdrew, we rapidly decreased our aid to the nation, abandoning an ally. Thirdly, maybe we should have thought about what kind of government the people of Iraq wanted before we invaded? As you put it, we might need to “wash our hands of them.” That would be easier for us if our hands weren’t so covered in blood. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/16 "2006-10-03T06:28:17Z")
Sweet Jesus, didn’t we win the war in Afghanistan? How could thing have gotten this bad? This is like us declaring back in 1948 that we had changed our minds and were giving Germany back to the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/17 "2006-10-03T06:39:10Z")
Think about September 12, 2001. Did any of us imagine that five years later, bin Laden would still be on the run and that we’d be talking about making deals with the Taliban. We have completely mishandled our response. After 9/11 it was clear we had been attacked by a terrorist organization with the support of the government of Afghanistan. We clearly had the right to respond to this attack and had near universal support from the international community. Our allies were ready to help in fighting this war. Instead, we tried to do the Afghanistan war on the cheap, while diverting resources to an ill-advised and unwinnable war in Iraq (if you don’t think Iraq is unwinnable come on over here and tell me in person). We have squandered international good will. We have done nearly irreparable harm to our international reputation, we have ammassed crippling debt, we have created a failed state (that is the term used by the US State Department to describe Iraq in a memo to Rice); we have created a training ground for terrorits and radical fundamentalists, where it had previously not existed, and we have failed to aprehend and punish the man who master-minded the 9/11 attacks. And yet, the US population consistently gives the Republican party high marks for national security. Was it Voltaire who said every nation gets the government it deserves? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frist-calls-for-surrender-to-taliban-repercussions/375052/18 "2006-10-03T14:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Sweet Jesus, didn’t we win the war in Afghanistan? [/QUOTE] It’s the occupation that’s a bitch. Of course, we took out the Afghani govt., such as it was, and flattened what was left of their already pathetic infrastructure. If that’s “winning”, yeah, we won at least that portion of the overall campaign.