# From Doctor Who to Doctor...Who? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 5, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557 "2017-07-05T19:13:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/81 "2017-07-16T21:25:24Z")
Oh give it a rest. It has been fairly well known for a while now that they were not going to limit the Doctor to being a white male. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/82 "2017-07-16T21:33:04Z")
This has to be the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on TV. Let’s make a new movie about the Civil War. We’ll cast a woman in ole Abe Lincoln’s role. Maybe we can cast Minnie Driver as George Washington in the next Revolutionary War movie. It’s the BBC’s show they can ruin it however they want. I’m done. It’s the same thing I’ve seen with some of the classic comic book characters. I wish they had been retired instead of distorting them into something unrecognizable. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/83 "2017-07-16T21:43:49Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This has to be the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on TV. > > Let’s make a new movie about the Civil War. We’ll cast a woman in ole Abe Lincoln’s role. Maybe we can cast Minnie Driver as George Washington in the next Revolutionary War movie. > > It’s the BBC’s show they can ruin it however they want. I’m done. > > It’s the same thing I’ve seen with some of the classic comic book characters. I wish they had been retired instead of distorting them into something unrecognizable. Women can’t be Doctors? Would you feel better if they stuck her in a one-off titled “Nurse Mystery”? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/84 "2017-07-16T21:44:35Z")
She was good in St Trinian’s. And after Capaldi, Nardole, and, I fear, Bill, it’ll be nice to have someone easy on the eyes. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/85 "2017-07-16T21:45:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This has to be the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on TV. > > Let’s make a new movie about the Civil War. We’ll cast a woman in ole Abe Lincoln’s role. Maybe we can cast Minnie Driver as George Washington in the next Revolutionary War movie. > > It’s the BBC’s show they can ruin it however they want. I’m done. > > It’s the same thing I’ve seen with some of the classic comic book characters. I wish they had been retired instead of distorting them into something unrecognizable. Do you have some sort of condition that erases the distinction between fiction and reality? I’d love to hear your opinions of the color-blind casting of Hamilton. I’ll bet that’s some good entertainment value. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/86 "2017-07-16T21:51:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s the same thing I’ve seen with some of the classic comic book characters. I wish they had been retired instead of distorting them into something unrecognizable. Like when they cast a woman as Captain Marvel, a Pakistani teenager as Ms. Marvel, an Asian American as The Hulk, and an African-American as Captain America? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/87 "2017-07-16T21:54:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Women can’t be Doctors? Would you feel better if they stuck her in a one-off titled “Nurse Mystery”? I never said that. You could have a heroic female Galliferian character. Somewhere out there the Doctor’s Daughter is traveling and having adventures. I enjoyed the Sarah Jane Adventures series. I’ve long advocated that Madame Vastra and Jenny should have a similar show aimed at a younger audience. My objection is taking a character that is thousands of years old and changing it so drastically on a whim. It’s rewriting 60 years of television just for the heck of it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/88 "2017-07-16T21:54:27Z")
The way to lose the audience will be if the characters and the stories are uninteresting, not fun, and the acting awful. 1966: “The Doctor is an elderly grandfather figure, making him a 40something year old makes no sense and will lose the audience.” 1974 “A tall lanky goof with curly hair? That’s not what the Doctor is supposed to be.” The Doctor is a male character? Only until they are not. Timelords are gender fluid. If the new show-runner and Jodie Whittaker (who have worked together before) bring a new Doctor as inspired as Gomez’s Missy was, and well written fun stories with a good supporting cast that has chemistry, then the show will become more popular than ever. If not it will flounder. Of course I worry about the latter no matter what. Odds are though that in a decade some will be referring to how the 13th Doctor is “their Doctor” and the others are “all wrong”. It won’t be **aceplace57** maybe but I’m as willing to give this one the exact same trepidation that I gave every other switch. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/89 "2017-07-16T22:01:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > My objection is taking a character that is thousands of years old and changing it so drastically on a whim. That is a major part of the Doctor’s character that you are objecting to. _Time, see what’s become of me That’s not who I used to be I’m not who I was I’m not who I’ll be I’ll never be anything else, can’t you see? I’ll always be somebody else_ ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/90 "2017-07-16T22:06:51Z")
It’s easy for middle-aged men - I speak as one - to forget that the Doctor Who target audience includes young children of both sexes. Sidney Newman expected, in 1986, that the Doctor would be a woman one day. This is not a new concept, and one thing that Who has consistently done over the decades is to provide good role models, for boys _and_ girls. This incarnation, it’s a woman. About time. I’m genuinely excited about the casting news. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/91 "2017-07-16T22:10:18Z")
Yup, none of this is ‘stunt casting’ or ‘PC’. It has been anticipated for more than 20 years and strongly foreshadowed in the finale of the last season. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/92 "2017-07-16T22:25:02Z")
[Well apparently they’ve heard your concerns, Aceplace57 and will make some changes](https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/07/appease-male-fans-doctor-announces-every-dalek-will-visible-penis/). ---
**Author:** ![TwoCarrotSnowman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twocarrotsnowman/32/15879_2.png) [@TwoCarrotSnowman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoCarrotSnowman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/93 "2017-07-16T22:29:55Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The BBC could have introduced a interesting female character from Gallifrey. They did, a couple of seasons ago. She was a male Time Lord who regenerated into a female called Missy. Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/94 "2017-07-16T22:35:26Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Has Jodie Whittaker just been announced or am I hearing wrong? She has one season, and if the ratings tank then it will be the fastest regeneration cycle. We meet her at Christmas, and then ep one of season 11 will have the highest ratings. After that, its going to be down to the quality of the stories and I’m not believing the Beeb will pull out of the safe zone, which potentially will kill the character ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/95 "2017-07-16T22:36:30Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > [Well apparently they’ve heard your concerns, Aceplace57 and will make some changes](https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/07/appease-male-fans-doctor-announces-every-dalek-will-visible-penis/). I love this quote, "“Oh sure, you think the show runners are standing up for tradition,” said longtime fan Kyle Marcus. “But one of those Daleks had a black penis. We all know Daleks are white. It’s canon!” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/96 "2017-07-16T22:39:51Z")
Alex Kingston (River Song) was thrilled, [and immediately made kissy noises](http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-07-15/alex-kingstons-reaction-to-a-female-doctor-who-was-so-river-song). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/97 "2017-07-16T22:43:51Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > They are completely inconsistent with pretty much everything, its Doctor Who. Fair point. > [@aceplace57](#): > > This has to be the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on TV. > > Let’s make a new movie about the Civil War. We’ll cast a woman in ole Abe Lincoln’s role. Maybe we can cast Minnie Driver as George Washington in the next Revolutionary War movie. > > It’s the BBC’s show they can ruin it however they want. I’m done. > > It’s the same thing I’ve seen with some of the classic comic book characters. I wish they had been retired instead of distorting them into something unrecognizable. Except for the fact that it was an already established fact that Time Lords can change sex when they regenerate. At least two Time Lord characters have changed from male to female in the past. They change Everything else why would that be out of bounds? > [@Chimera](#): > > Yup, none of this is ‘stunt casting’ or ‘PC’. It has been anticipated for more than 20 years and strongly foreshadowed in the finale of the last season. On the other hand just because it was brought up decades ago doesn’t mean this wasn’t stunt casting or for PC reasons. They knew very well there would be a hur and cry if another white guy was cast. The big question I have is how many episodes in do they wait before they fall back on the usual crutches, Daleks and Cybermen. Class is already using the Killer Angels so maybe we will be spared that. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/98 "2017-07-16T22:46:25Z")
Jodie Whittaker? Cool, I’m in. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/99 "2017-07-16T22:48:24Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The big question I have is how many episodes in do they wait before they fall back on the usual crutches, Daleks and Cybermen. Class is already using the Killer Angels so maybe we will be spared that. As I recall, they have to use the Daleks at least once per season per the contract with the owners, who are not BBC. And I would half-expect the Cybermen to show up as the Doctor has unfinished business there, what with Nardole in the very next level and the threat still looming. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557/100 "2017-07-16T23:00:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > As a time travel show Doctor Who is a little different than other shows. Having a colorblind approach isn’t jarring or even noticeable in modern day segments and aliens can be whatever you write them to be. Going back in time and showing the England of the past as being enlightened and harmonious with regards to race strains the suspension of disbelief with me at times. I haven’t memorized each time it’s happened but recently they had a black soldier integrated into a Victorian (went back and checked I guess Edwardian, set a few years later than I thought but doesn’t change much) unit and showing a picture of his white fiancée who he was hoping to get back to. Yes that felt jarring to me. …in a world where roles for [black and minority actors are worse than ever](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/sep/28/roles-uk-black-minority-ethnic-actors-worse-than-ever-claims-david-oyelowo) I can live with black soldier inetegrated into a Victorian unit as much as I can live knowledge that the moon was actually an 100-million-year-old egg. (And of the two I can tell you it wasn’t the soldier that was more jarring.) But I’m sure you can be reassured that the writer of that episode [felt the same way as you.](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/06/11/exclusive-doctor-writer-protested-against-problematic-casting/) I think that Gatiss was wrong. Even when he changed his mind when he found out that a black soldier who married a white woman in Edwardian times really actually happened. I’m sorry that both you and Gatiss can’t handle a bit of diversity in casting. But Vincey was one of my favourite things about that episode. Representation matters. And something that might be “jarring” to you could mean the world to somebody else. Just let that “somebody else” have something to cheer about already. And congratulations to Jodie Whittaker. 🙂 With the departure of Moffat (Matt Smith’s first season was my favourite thing ever, but as time went on Moffat lost his mojo) and Chibnal’s announcement that he will have a more “American” style writing room, the next season of Doctor Who looks to really shake up the formula, which I think will be fantastic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-doctor-who-to-doctor-who/790557.md?page=6)