# From Now On Should the Passengers Creed be To Jump the HiJackers? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 14, 2001, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606 "2001-09-14T15:07:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/41 "2001-09-15T20:17:29Z")
Hell, yes, fight back! Not just the big guys. I’m a little short squirt of a woman but I’d have a go at a hijacker, too. The way some of these people discount women they’d probably never suspect one of fighting back. Might have an element of surprise that would let me take one out while they’re “dealing with” the six-foot rugby players. If attempts to use airlines as bombs result in the hijackers dead and their mission incomplete then they will stop doing this. On the other hand - they’ll look for some other way to hurt us. Or maybe just start killing _all_ the passengers prior to taking the controls. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/42 "2001-09-15T20:24:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Or maybe just start killing all the passengers prior to taking the controls. Relying on a couple of givens: 1. No bombs. Tightened security finds them. 2. No guns. Same reason. They can’t kill everyone. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/43 "2001-09-15T20:36:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tsunamisurfer \* > \*\* Folks, given the trajectory of terror, within a few years my seemingly intemperate remark re: torture will be seen as prescient. \*\* Just what the world needs. More fucking terrorists. Guess they succeeded after all. ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/44 "2001-09-15T22:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by tsunamisurfer \* > > \*\* Folks, given the trajectory of terror, within a few years my seemingly intemperate remark re: torture will be seen as prescient. \*\* > > Just what the world needs. More fucking terrorists. > > Guess they succeeded after all. \*\* You’re shrill hysteria is simply breathtaking. Get out a little and get some sun. ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/45 "2001-09-15T22:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by tsunamisurfer \* > > \*\* Folks, given the trajectory of terror, within a few years my seemingly intemperate remark re: torture will be seen as prescient. \*\* > > Just what the world needs. More fucking terrorists. > > Guess they succeeded after all. \*\* Let me add that your response was assinine and totally uncalled for an, um, distinguished moderator. Is vile name-calling kosher on the Boards outside the Pit? If so, let me know and I’d be glad to reciprocate in kind. Otherwise, knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/46 "2001-09-16T03:11:10Z")
Ooh, Tsunami has cujones, considering we were worried about manhattan’s whereabouts a few days ago. Tsunami, cool off alright? ---
**Author:** ![Lockfist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@Lockfist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lockfist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/47 "2001-09-16T04:21:40Z")
Would it be possible to simply open the emergency door on the plane ? Would the change in air pressure suck everyone not belted in out of the plane ? The problem with a terrorist on the plane is that you do not want to jeopordize the entire plane if the hijaker is simply going to land the plane and make demands. That would by my first instinct if I were on a hijaked plane. If it become obvious that I was going to die, then I would certainly take whatever action I could. Otherwise I’d be inclined to wait it out. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/48 "2001-09-16T12:59:33Z")
No. The hatches open inward before they open outward. This is so the pressurization of the cabin pushes them against their seals, creating a stronger, better seal. Also, who would open the emergency exits? They are secured and opened manually. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/49 "2001-09-16T16:15:24Z")
Just to confirm **Johnny L.A.**'s correct answer and affirm that the fight to eradicate ignorance never takes a break, [Cecil Adams](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_390.html) on airplane doors at altitude. And **tsunamisurfer** , I consider you to be one of the casualties of Tuesday’s attacks. I mourn your loss. If you do some reading on whether torture is actually effective (it’s not), you may come to change your mind. And with time, maybe your heart, too. I’d like that, and I’d be the first to welcome you back to the world of civilized human beings. [used my moderator superpowers to fix the link. -manhattan] [Edited by manhattan on 09-16-2001 at 11:17 AM] ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/50 "2001-09-16T16:24:51Z")
I’m cool, Capacitor, but since I’ve been slammed by a moderator, let me clarify my position on torture of terrorists. Let’s say our Special Forces soon invade a terrorist camp and discover chemical/biological warfare agents inside the compound (which has already happened, BTW). Let’s also say that a couple of terrorists are caught, yet refuse to disclose anything about means of delivery or timetable. If it’s clear that these weapons of mass destruction (WMD) are going to be used against innocent Americans, then I have ZERO problem torturing captives to make them talk. The clock is ticking. Playing by the rules may cause catastrophic damage to our nation. I am saddened but convinced that, in less than 10 years, untold tens of thousands of Americans will perish or be permanently crippled due to WMD’s, such as anthrax, small pox, nerve has and possibly nuclear weapons. It will wreak havoc on our economy, our domestic security, and our precious civil liberties. ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/51 "2001-09-16T16:28:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*And **tsunamisurfer** , I consider you to be one of the casualties of Tuesday’s attacks. I mourn your loss. > > If you do some reading on whether torture is actually effective (it’s not), you may come to change your mind. And with time, maybe your heart, too. I’d like that, and I’d be the first to welcome you back to the world of civilized human beings.\*\* I mourn your arrogance and naivete. Stick to moderating and save your phony sympathies for someone else. [You’ve been warned before. 'Nuff said-Czarcasm] [Edited by Czarcasm on 09-16-2001 at 11:59 AM] ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/52 "2001-09-16T16:29:21Z")
There was an airline pilot on TV yesterday that, among other things, said that wearing seatbelts is strongly advised. He said words to the effect that, if he knew a hijacker was trying to enter the cockpit, there were things they could do to “throw the airplane all over the sky.” They could even depressurize the cabin. I wonder…what would happen to a DC-10 doing an Immelmann? How about if they cut power and nosed over so it was like the Vomit Comet…everyone weightless? Can you imagine being a passenger on the flight, and the tale you’d have to tell afterwards? Just hope you’re not in the can. ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/53 "2001-09-16T16:44:05Z")
If news sources are correct regarding the plane that crashed near Pittsburg, only three (3) passengers are _believed_ to have confronted the hijackers. Three unarmed men against 5-6 armed men are bad odds, especially considering the innocents were hearded into the back and would have had to run all the way to the front–in the open. I might also add that one of the passengers in the back of the plane had left his/her telephone on during the entire episode, and the listener on the other end later said s/he could hear the crowd scream once, followed by a pause, followed by another long mass scream that s/he described as sounding like people plunging down a roller coaster ride. After another pause, the phone went dead. ---
**Author:** ![Lockfist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@Lockfist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lockfist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/54 "2001-09-16T19:44:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Just to confirm Johnny L.A.'s correct answer and affirm that the fight to eradicate ignorance never takes a break, Cecil Adams on airplane doors at altitude. Oh **Johnny L.A.** and **manhattan** , my plan was _perfect_ until you meddling kids came by ! Ignorance is bliss or so they say. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/55 "2001-09-17T00:04:57Z")
We understand that this is a difficult and traumatic time for everyone, most of all those that had this horror happen directly to them, like our dear friend Manhattan. Anyone that would insult and harass him – or anyone else – during this time is truly insensitive and maybe even a little cruel. While we may serve in some way as a sounding board, a place to talk things out, we never want to be a place where people exchange ignorance and rattle sabers. tsunamisurfer, you been way out of line here. I’m fully prepared to throw your sorry self out. Give me a reason not to. your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/56 "2001-09-17T01:20:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TubaDiva \* > **tsunamisurfer, you been way out of line here. I’m fully prepared to throw your sorry self out. Give me a reason not to.** MANHATTAN: Please accept my apologies for my intemperate remarks to you after you called me a terrorist and suggested I am not part of the human race after I had previously said that torture of terrorists should not be ruled out (in extreme cases). I feel such pain for the people in NY that I cannot describe it. I am a lover of life and people. But when terrorists threaten this country, I believe they should be dealt with harshly. Again, my apologies. tsunamisurfer ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/57 "2001-09-17T14:08:24Z")
MANNY: To my great shock and dismay, I just learned last night from TUBADIVA that you were in the middle of the disaster that struck NYC, lost several friends, and personally witnessed the tragic events unfold. May I again offer my humblest apologies and extend my most heartfelt condolences. I had no idea. I now pray that you and your loved ones somehow recover from this horrible ordeal. humbly yours, tsunamisurfer ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606/58 "2001-09-17T22:04:20Z")
Eh, don’t worry about that. But please consider what I was saying (if not the tone in which I said it). This war isn’t about landmark buildings, or lost friends, or bombing this target or that one in retaliation, or even about catching those responsible (although we must do that). This war is about us. The very idea of a civilized society and a civilized people was attacked and badly injured last week. Please don’t lose this war for yourself before we’ve even begun to fight. Torture is what the North Vietnamese did to our POW’s. Torture is what guys like them do to guys like us. Not the other way around. Please spend some time on the Amnesty International page or some similar place. You will learn that not only is torture wrong for civilized people, it doesn’t even work! We’ll get our vengeance. We’ll make those who lack the moral backbone not to engage in terror at least fear the consequences. But we’ll do it in a way that we can be proud of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-now-on-should-the-passengers-creed-be-to-jump-the-hijackers/81606.md?page=2)