# From the halls of Montezuma to she shores of -- wait, what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 20, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270 "2011-01-20T01:41:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/1 "2011-01-20T01:41:40Z")
Okay, most Dopers have at least a passing familiarity with the Hymn of the United States Marine Corps. The lyric goes: _From the halls of Montezuma To the shores of Tripoli We fight our country’s battles in the air, on land, and sea etc…_ Okay, I know that the “shores of Tripoli” line harks back to the battles with the Barbary pirates. But where did they get that “halls of Montezuma” stuff? Chasing Pancho Villa across the Rio Grande? Fighting for the interests of the United Fruit Company? Help me out here, someone. TIA. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/2 "2011-01-20T01:48:47Z")
Maybe it’s a _ceremonial_ Montezuma. [Wikipedia:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marines'_Hymn) > [@](#): > > “The Halls of Montezuma” refers to the Battle of Chapultepec, during the Mexican-American War, where a force of Marines stormed Chapultepec Castle. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/3 "2011-01-20T01:49:33Z")
Typing in _halls of montezuma_ in Wikipedia brings up: > **[Battle of Chapultepec](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chapultepec)** > > The Battle of Chapultepec took place between U.S. troops and Mexican forces holding the strategically located Chapultepec Castle on the outskirts of Mexico City on the 13th of September, 1847 during the Mexican–American War. The castle was built atop a 200-foot (61 m) hill in 1783, and in 1833 it was converted into a military academy and a gunpowder storage facility. The hill was surrounded by a wall 1,600 yards long. > The battle was one of the most pivotal battles during the Mexican–American Wa... > [@](#): > > The efforts of the U.S. Marines in this battle and subsequent occupation of Mexico City are memorialized by the opening lines of the Marines’ Hymn, “From the Halls of Montezuma…” . ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/4 "2011-01-20T01:51:03Z")
It refers to the Mexican-American War, a little before Pancho Villa’s time. Specifically it refers to the battle of [Chapultepec](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chapultepec). ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/5 "2011-01-20T01:57:45Z")
_Whoa_! It almost looks like critical mass here. _RUN_! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/6 "2011-01-20T02:01:12Z")
:smack: I totally forgot about the Mexican War! Never paid much attention to it in history class, except the part about remembering the Alamo. And that the Marines played a role never even came up on my radar. Seeing that they wouldn’t have needed a ride from the Navy to get to Mexico, it wouldn’t have occurred to me that they’d be interested in going… :smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/7 "2011-01-20T02:12:34Z")
Actually they did get a ride from the Navy. They landed at Veracruz. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyMarine2092](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyMarine2092](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyMarine2092)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/8 "2011-01-20T02:16:35Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > :smack: > > I totally forgot about the Mexican War! Never paid much attention to it in history class, except the part about remembering the Alamo. And that the Marines played a role never even came up on my radar. Seeing that they wouldn’t have needed a ride from the Navy to get to Mexico, it wouldn’t have occurred to me that they’d be interested in going… > > :smack::smack: Actually the troops that seized Mexico City arrived almost entirely via the Navy. They landed at Vera Cruz and followed the rout followed by Cortez. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/9 "2011-01-20T02:22:27Z")
Kinda counterintuitive, when there’s a land route; that’s all I’m sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/10 "2011-01-20T02:29:37Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I totally forgot about the Mexican War! Never paid much attention to it in history class, except the part about remembering the Alamo. Different war. The Alamo was the secession of Texas from Mexico in order to form the Republic of Texas. The Mexican War was when the southern democrat slavers baited Mexico into attacking us so that they could justify a massive land grab and eventually have a larger balance of power in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/11 "2011-01-20T02:47:26Z")
In that case I guess I never paid any attention to it at all, with the exception of the tidbit that the US got to buy the Gadsden Purchase at a steep discount. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/12 "2011-01-20T02:52:24Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > _Whoa_! It almost looks like critical mass here. _RUN_! At least it wasn’t about them crossing the Rio (with Duran Duran)! ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/13 "2011-01-20T02:52:39Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > _Whoa_! It almost looks like critical mass here. _RUN_! Civies may call it that. Marines call it Semper Fi. ---
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/14 "2011-01-20T02:54:34Z")
In the Texas War, the Mexicans found the land route about as deadly as the Alamo. We had the ships, so we took a detour. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/15 "2011-01-20T03:17:18Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Kinda counterintuitive, when there’s a land route; that’s all I’m sayin’. Before railways, if a trip could be made by land or by sea, by sea was usually easier, cheaper and quicker. And the larger the number of people travelling/the amount of stuff they were bringing with them, the truer this was. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/16 "2011-01-20T03:36:44Z")
> [@](#): > > They landed at Vera Cruz and followed the rout followed by Cortez. Oh, so it was a rout, then? I presume by the other guys, since we made it to the Halls. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/17 "2011-01-20T04:35:15Z")
> [@Kilmore](#): > > Actually they did get a ride from the Navy. They landed at Veracruz. Memorialized in another song: > [@Warren Zevon](#): > > I heard Woodrow Wilson’s guns > I heard Maria calling > Saying, “Veracruz is dying > And Cuernavaca’s falling” ---
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/18 "2011-01-20T04:59:37Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Memorialized in another song: Not necessarily. Wilson knocked on their doors too. > **[Tampico Affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampico_Affair)** > > see also > The Tampico Affair began as a minor incident involving United States Navy sailors and the Mexican Federal Army loyal to Mexican dictator General Victoriano Huerta. On April 9, 1914, nine sailors had come ashore to secure supplies and were detained by Mexican forces. Commanding Admiral Henry Mayo demanded that the US sailors be released, and that Mexico issue an apology, raise and salute the US flag, and perform a 21-gun salute. Mexico promptly released the sailors, but refused the deman... ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/19 "2011-01-20T05:20:20Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > _Whoa_! It almost looks like critical mass here. _RUN_! I’m not sure how much the veracity of the answer is confirmed when three people post in a row, all citing the same Wikipedia page. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270/20 "2011-01-20T05:40:31Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:19, topic:568270”] I’m not sure how much the veracity of the answer is confirmed when three people post in a row, all citing the same Wikipedia page. [/quote] I think you’re right. In my case at least I cited the Wikipedia page because it was the first that came up after a casual Google search, as always seems to be the case for practically any search term these days. (Maybe due to people like me always linking to the first one they find.) It can be useful for a quick cite on something already widely known and uncontroversial. But here is the same answer from another source, the [USMC Press.](http://www.usmcpress.com/heritage/marine_hymn.htm) (unless they get their information from Wikipedia.:eek:) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-halls-of-montezuma-to-she-shores-of-wait-what/568270.md?page=2)