# From the Ministry of Truth: 9/11: The Movie! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 5, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572 "2006-09-05T23:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/41 "2006-09-06T19:41:09Z")
It’s interesting that people keep comparing this movie to _Fahrenheit 9/11_. _I_ keep thinking of _The Reagans_. For those who don’t remember, _The Reagans_ was a miniseries that CBS produced and planned to air in 2003. That is, until the script was leaked and conservative opinionmakers went apeshit, describing it as an unfair attack on Ron and Nancy. The most controversial point was a scene in which President Reagan (Josh Brolin) tells Nancy (Judy Davis), during a conversation about AIDS victims, “They that live in sin shall die in sin.” Some scenes were changed and dropped in response to the conservative hue and cry, but ultimately, CBS decided that wasn’t enough and decided to farm the series out to Showtime. The network denied that the reaction had anything to do with their decision, but said the film [“does not present a balanced portrayal of the Reagans for CBS and its audience.”](http://www.cbs.com/homepage/popups/hp_popup_reagans.shtml) Anybody think that might happen to _The Path to 9/11_, which is airing on the anniversary of the attacks? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/42 "2006-09-06T19:44:53Z")
> [@ThinkProgress](#): > > 1. Contrary to the movie, no US military or CIA personnel were on the ground in Afghanistan and saw bin Laden. How do they know that there were no CIA in Afghanistan? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/43 "2006-09-06T19:51:01Z")
I was thinking the exact same thing, **Marley23**. There will be no changes or deletions due to any hue and cry because any hue and cry is going to be characterized as unpatriotic/morally and intellectually confused, etc. The Right is much more able to be pushy and aggressive and get a response in their favor. The Left is perceived as mealy-mouthed and weak. Why should anyone be afraid of us??? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/44 "2006-09-06T19:56:28Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] How do they know that there were no CIA in Afghanistan? [/QUOTE] They’re quoting Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism czar for Bush I, Clinton and Bush II, and now counterterrorism adviser to ABC. (ABC didn’t bring Clarke in to consult on the factual background for the makeshitupdrama.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/45 "2006-09-06T20:03:45Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] …which is a shame since it makes doing searches incomplete at best. [/QUOTE] So, **BubbulehDem**? For what do you think they call it Goygle? _Feh!_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/46 "2006-09-06T20:08:15Z")
From _Dialy Kos_: original source _Editor and Publisher_ > [@](#): > > “ABC responded Tuesday with a statement saying that the miniseries was ‘a dramatization, not a documentary, drawn from a variety of sources, including the 9/11 commission report, other published materials and from personal interviews.’” > > Gov. Kean said the scene in Afghanistan and the attempt to get bin Laden “is a composite.” A “composite”. > [@](#): > > …I commend ABC because they have continually asked me to be as truthful and honest as I can be. The producers have made every effort to be objective and tell the story truthfully - because that’s what the subject matter, and our audience, deserves… Contast and compare. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/47 "2006-09-06T20:28:47Z")
Sometimes I wander around in the tighty righty blechosphere. I tell myself I’m looking at other sides, but it might just be morbid, like getting up on a fine spring day full of vim and optimism and then deciding to take in a Diane Arbus exhibition… But I do. And these people have subsribed to a seperate reality, with customized facts. For instance, that fable about Sandy Berger/Clinton holding the CIA at bay from nailing ObL has been making the rounds (_Little Green Turdballs, FrontRage, Usual Suspects Monthly_…) for so long, they are accepted fact! They reference each other and the _Washington Times_, and their skepticism regarding cites pales to invisibility next to our own belligerant demands for “just the facts, meme”. Even as I’m a bit surprised that they were dumb enough to include _obvious_ untruths (when they could have accomplished their evil design simply by spin control…), I remind myself that they might actually believe it, having been so long unexposed to skeptical reception. When everybody agrees with you, you have no opportunity to find out you’re full of beans. Certainly, they cannot dare match wits with a Cecilian, when death is on the line. More’s the pity. That said, however: if they are this cavalier with the facts, just imagine what thier objectivity will be like in the matter of spin? Will there be lascivious mention of Bill Clinton’s cigars? Who plays Hillary? Cynthia Cokeskank? But soft! I am, once again, overcome with emotion when I contemplate the selfless patriotism and civic virtue of ABC who have produced this epic on their own dime, and offer it freely to the public, with no thought…\*none!..\*to any reward they might otherwise… A bridge? Why, yes, I’d love to own a bridge! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/48 "2006-09-06T22:03:10Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] They’re quoting Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism czar for Bush I, Clinton and Bush II, and now counterterrorism adviser to ABC. (ABC didn’t bring Clarke in to consult on the factual background for the makeshitupdrama.) [/QUOTE] There are those who beg to differ with Mr. Clark, per this report from [Bob Woodward](http://www.udel.edu/global/agenda/2002/readings/wp-ciatrackedbinladen.html) at the WaPo. But frankly, I don’t know what’s worse: That Clinton didn’t have the CIA on ObL’s tail, as you claim, or that he did and didn’t/couldn’t act on it. Now, I don’t buy the story that we literally had the guy in our sights and Clinton “refused to give the order to pull the trigger”, but you seem overly eager to categorically dismiss any contrary evidence out of hand. > [@](#): > > For four years prior to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the CIA paid a team of about 15 recruited Afghan agents to regularly track Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, according to well-placed sources. That story implicates Bush as well as Clinton wrt not getting ObL when we had a good chance to do so, btw. > [@elucidator](#): > > ``` > Sometimes I wander around in the tighty righty blechosphere. I tell myself I'm looking at other sides, but it might just be morbid, like getting up on a fine spring day full of vim and optimism and then deciding to take in a Diane Arbus exhibition... But I do. And these people have subsribed to a seperate reality, with customized facts. > > ``` > > For instance, that fable about Sandy Berger/Clinton holding the CIA at bay from nailing ObL has been making the rounds (Little Green Turdballs, FrontRage, Usual Suspects Monthly…) for so long, they are accepted fact! They reference each other and the Washington Times, and their skepticism regarding cites pales to invisibility next to our own belligerant demands for “just the facts, meme”. Well, the paticulars of that story are certainly easy to dispute, but it’s not just the right wing blogosphere that is reporting missed opportunities by Mr. Clinton-- unless [MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/) counts as part of that -sphere. Color me skeptical that if that story had been about Bush in March of '01, you wouldn’t be touting it as God’s own truth. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/49 "2006-09-06T22:14:14Z")
You are certainly welcome to believe that my rabid partisanship renders me blind to the even-handed fairness available to one like yourself. I am a scoundrel, a blackguard, and a despoiler of maidens, but the facts are what they are. And they are as I have presented them. My character flaws aren’t at issue here, unless you can find some way to make them relevant. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/50 "2006-09-06T22:26:45Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] You are certainly welcome to believe that my rabid partisanship renders me blind to the even-handed fairness available to one like yourself. I am a scoundrel, a blackguard, and a despoiler of maidens, but the facts are what they are. And they are as I have presented them. My character flaws aren’t at issue here, unless you can find some way to make them relevant. Good luck with that. [/QUOTE] You presented facts? Sorry if I couldn’t see them through all the camoflage. And of course I never said you were rabidly partisan-- just plain ol’ partisan is accurate enough. Not that there’s anything wrong with that! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/51 "2006-09-06T22:38:03Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] How do they know that there were no CIA in Afghanistan? [/QUOTE] Who ever said there were no CIA in Afghanistan??? Aren’t you leaving out a crucial clause there? Something about “and saw bin Laden”? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/52 "2006-09-06T22:44:18Z")
They’re going to show a movie over 4 hours long with no commercial breaks? Don’t worry, nobody’s gonna watch much of it. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/53 "2006-09-06T22:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Any references to _My Pet Goat_? [/QUOTE] According to [folks who’ve previewed the movie,](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003087654) nope: > [@](#): > > “The Path to 9/11” ends with a long segment on the day of the attacks and top officials’ response – though we only see President Bush in his speech to the nation, not in the Florida classroom with “The Pet Goat.” Oh, and an ABC “insider” has [assured the right-wing blogosphere](http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/9367b3cd-be2a-40a3-b927-1854a0115108) that despite some last-minute edits, the anti-Clinton slant of the movie will be intact: > [@](#): > > - There will be a handful of tweaks made to a few scenes. > - They are minor, and nuance in most cases - a line lift here, a tweak to the edit there. > - There are 900 screeners out there. When this airs this weekend, there will be a number of people who will spend their free evenings looking for these changes and will be hard pressed to identify them. They are that minor. > - The average viewer would not be able to tell the difference between the two versions. > **- The message of the Clinton Admin failures remains fully intact.** And comparing this to _Fahrenheit 9/11_ seems unfair, as Michael Moore never [created scenes out of whole cloth.](http://public.cq.com/public/20060905_homeland.html) But hey, it’s an election year, whaddaya expect from the GOP? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/54 "2006-09-06T22:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] It’s interesting that people keep comparing this movie to _Fahrenheit 9/11_. _I_ keep thinking of _The Reagans_. For those who don’t remember, _The Reagans_ was a miniseries that CBS produced and planned to air in 2003. That is, until the script was leaked and conservative opinionmakers went apeshit, describing it as an unfair attack on Ron and Nancy. The most controversial point was a scene in which President Reagan (Josh Brolin) tells Nancy (Judy Davis), during a conversation about AIDS victims, “They that live in sin shall die in sin.” Some scenes were changed and dropped in response to the conservative hue and cry, but ultimately, CBS decided that wasn’t enough and decided to farm the series out to Showtime. The network denied that the reaction had anything to do with their decision, but said the film [“does not present a balanced portrayal of the Reagans for CBS and its audience.”](http://www.cbs.com/homepage/popups/hp_popup_reagans.shtml) Anybody think that might happen to _The Path to 9/11_, which is airing on the anniversary of the attacks? If not, why not? [/QUOTE] I dunno-- because the hard-core left is not as well organized as the hard-core right? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/55 "2006-09-06T23:02:04Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I dunno-- because the hard-core left is not as well organized as the hard-core right? [/QUOTE] Maybe, just maybe, we have some shreds of a conscience left? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/56 "2006-09-06T23:11:08Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] They’re going to show a movie over 4 hours long with no commercial breaks? Don’t worry, nobody’s gonna watch much of it. [/QUOTE] I’m sure they’ll pause for Republican party pledge breaks. I think I’m going to boycott ABC and Disney. Maybe God can send Pat Robertson’s hurricane to Orlando just a bit late. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/57 "2006-09-06T23:16:02Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I dunno-- because the hard-core left is not as well organized as the hard-core right? [/QUOTE] We certainly lack the iron discipline of the libertarians. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/58 "2006-09-07T06:56:30Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I dunno-- because the hard-core left is not as well organized as the hard-core right? [/QUOTE] That’s true, although the Democrats are now trying to put a response together. I think it might also have to do with ABC being more successful at keeping the contents of the movie a secret. Speaking of which, do you find it confusing at all that ABC reached out to conservative blogs in pitching this movie? Does that make it sound like they had an agenda, or make you a teeny bit curious? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/59 "2006-09-07T07:43:00Z")
So elucidator did you see the movies – or this more like a proactive pitting based on hearsay and rumors? Anyway the movie sounds to me a bit like the British movie Road to Guantanamo. Apparently the Brits are also making a tv-series featuring Bush get martyred. But apparently I missed the SDMB pitting of either of them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/60 "2006-09-07T07:45:50Z")
Sheer coincidence. Kinda like how they made all those copies, sent them out, and then when Bill Clinton or Madeliene Albright asked for a copy, they were fresh out! Something like 900 copies sent out, to the list of all the major intellectual heavyweights…ya know, Rush Limbaugh, Hugh Hewitt, the deep thinkers… and anyway, both of the liberals copies got lost in the mailroom. Hey, shit happens… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572.md?page=4)