# From the Ministry of Truth: 9/11: The Movie! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 5, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572 "2006-09-05T23:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/121 "2006-09-08T02:24:49Z")
[QUOTE=Rune] Anyway the movie sounds to me a bit like the British movie Road to Guantanamo. [/QUOTE] Hope and Crosby, back together again! Wonder who they got to wear the sarong for this one? ISTM the Reagan flick is remembered today, if at all, not for a single line but for a suckitude so profound that it never reappeared. Based on the [ABC.com](http://ABC.com) summary of this one, making it look like “The Winds of War” with more polemics, I’d expect a similar fate. In fact, the publicity around the fictionalization of a story that’s dramatic enough when told straight may have more effect (on the election) than the mere confirmation of the remaining rabid Clinton-haters’ suspicions in the flick itself. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/122 "2006-09-08T02:25:51Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] He’d got him in his sights, only Clinton or Albright calls and tells him not to shoot. I could see why you guys wouldn’t want that fact getting out. [/QUOTE] I could see why you’d think that was a fact. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/123 "2006-09-08T02:37:52Z")
Not quite the whole story though, is it, **Scylla**. Did he get his instructions during his treason internship in Moscow, or did they come through the Soros-Hillary connection? Enquiring minds want to know! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/124 "2006-09-08T02:49:13Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Anyway, since Farenheit 911 you don’t get any sympathy for me. A long time ago this stopped being about the truth and became all about controlling the frame. [/QUOTE] It’s rare that you get someone who admits he doesn’t care about the truth at all. I applaud your honesty in admitting you’re okay with dishonesty, **Scylla**. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/125 "2006-09-08T02:53:25Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] It’s rare that you get someone who admits he doesn’t care about the truth at all. I applaud your honesty in admitting you’re okay with dishonesty, **Scylla**. [/QUOTE] At what point did you stop acting like a deliberate asshole and become genuinely stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/126 "2006-09-08T02:55:40Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] At what point did you stop acting like a deliberate asshole and become genuinely stupid? [/QUOTE] Are you accusing me of writing your last post? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/127 "2006-09-08T06:02:10Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I hear there’s this scene where Donnie Wahlberg (from New Kids on The Block, how cool is that?) plays a CIA agent sent to Asassinate Osama Bin Laden. He’d got him in his sights, only Clinton or Albright calls and tells him not to shoot. I could see why you guys wouldn’t want that fact getting out. [/QUOTE] That’s a joke, right? Let’s put that one up on the Mantel of Honor with Evil Nazi Groundhogs and The Horror of Blimps. Not enough room? Well, **Scylla’s** La-z-Boy has been wobbling lately; just wad it up and stick it underneath one of the corners. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/128 "2006-09-08T07:16:30Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] It’s rare that you get someone who admits he doesn’t care about the truth at all. I applaud your honesty in admitting you’re okay with dishonesty, **Scylla**. [/QUOTE] You would think his asinine unfounded “Clinton or Albright calls and tells him not to shoot” is indeed controlling the frame, but noooooooooo. Seems the minister of Scylla truths has the idea this is fact. Here is Richard Clarke’s response: > [@](#): > > 1. Contrary to the movie, no US military or CIA personnel were on the ground in Afghanistan and saw bin Laden. > > ``` > 2. Contrary to the movie, the head of the Northern Alliance, Masood, was no where near the alleged bin Ladin camp and did not see UBL. > > 3. Contrary to the movie, the CIA Director actually said that he could not recommend a strike on the camp because the information was single sourced and we would have no way to know if bin Laden was in the target area by the time a cruise missile hit it. > > ``` > **[ThinkProgress](https://thinkprogress.org/?tag=Path+to+911)** > [@](#): > > Richard Miniter — conservative author of “Losing bin Laden: How Bill Clinton’s Failures Unleashed Global Terror” — confirmed that scenes in ABC’s Path to 9/11 are based on “Internet myth.” > > … > > MINITER: That’s a legal question. But certainly if I was the producer I wouldn’t have gone with this scene because there’s no factual basis for it. It seems to be drawn from an Internet myth. From a profound misunderstanding of what actually happened. If people wanted to be critical of the Clinton years there’s things they could have said, but the idea that someone had bin Laden in his sights in 1998 or any other time and Sandy Berger refused to pull the trigger, there’s zero factual basis for that. > > BLITZER: You’ve heard other 9/11 commission members saying it wasn’t Sandy Berger who pulled the trigger, it was George Tenet the CIA director. Based on what you know, is that accurate? > > MINITER: Even that’s not accurate. We just never had eyes on bin Laden in the pre-9/11 situation. The 9/11 commission investigated this. The House and Senate joint committee investigated this and published a 1,000-page report. I looked into it extensively. Most of the sources for my book are Clinton administration officials. There’s just no basis for this at all, none. IIRC it seems that there were some times when Bin Laden hunted with Saudi or United Emirates royals that we had some evidence for his location, but Tenet thought the info was not reliable, I have the feeling though that not killing the Prince for the emirate of Dubai played a factor in Bush later thinking that Tenet did a heck of a job. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/129 "2006-09-08T18:44:25Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Hope and Crosby, back together again! Wonder who they got to wear the sarong for this one? [/quote] The twins? 🙂 > [@](#): > > ISTM the Reagan flick is remembered today, if at all, not for a single line but for a suckitude so profound that it never reappeared. Based on the [ABC.com](http://ABC.com) summary of this one, making it look like “The Winds of War” with more polemics, I’d expect a similar fate. In fact, the publicity around the fictionalization of a story that’s dramatic enough when told straight may have more effect (on the election) than the mere confirmation of the remaining rabid Clinton-haters’ suspicions in the flick itself. If TV movies got banished to cable for suckitude, there would be a lot of dead air on the broadcast channels. Besides the national IQ maybe going up, we’d never notice the difference. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/130 "2006-09-08T19:01:24Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I hear there’s this scene where Donnie Wahlberg (from New Kids on The Block, how cool is that?) plays a CIA agent sent to Asassinate Osama Bin Laden. He’d got him in his sights, only Clinton or Albright calls and tells him not to shoot. I could see why you guys wouldn’t want that fact getting out. [/QUOTE] Actually, that “fact” got editted out. Or at least they edited out the part about Sandy Berger. From the [NYT reivew](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/arts/television/08path.html?_r=2&ref=television&oref=slogin&oref=slogin) of the film: > [@](#): > > The outside pressure was intense enough to persuade ABC to re-edit one of the more contested made-up scenes in the film. In the version sent to critics, it depicted C.I.A. operatives and their Afghan allies armed with guns and night-vision goggles creeping in the dark to snatch Mr. bin Laden from his compound in 1998. The men are told to stand by, in harm’s way, as the C.I.A. director, George J. Tenet and the national security adviser, Samuel R. Berger, cavil by videoconference. Rather than take a firm decision, Mr. Berger flips off his videophone, and Mr. Tenet aborts the mission. (Among other things, ABC agreed to excise Mr. Berger’s hissy fit.) > > In reality the C.I.A. got close, but never that close. In May 1998 Mr. Tenet scrapped a heavily rehearsed raid to kidnap Mr. bin Laden from his compound before it was mounted. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/131 "2006-09-08T19:53:28Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] After years with Roseanne and then _King Ralph_. he should be permitted whatever shriveled dignity remains. [/QUOTE] Hey, I liked John Goodman in _Monsters Inc._ and _The Emperor’s New Groove,_ even if he does get typecast as “lovable big lug”. And to address **John Mace’s** excerpt: > [@](#): > > The outside pressure was intense enough to persuade ABC to re-edit one of the more contested made-up scenes in the film. In the version sent to critics, it depicted C.I.A. operatives and their Afghan allies armed with guns and night-vision goggles creeping in the dark to snatch Mr. bin Laden from his compound in 1998. The men are told to stand by, in harm’s way, as the C.I.A. director, George J. Tenet and the national security adviser, Samuel R. Berger, cavil by videoconference. Rather than take a firm decision, Mr. Berger flips off his videophone, and Mr. Tenet aborts the mission. (Among other things, ABC agreed to excise Mr. Berger’s hissy fit.) > > In reality the C.I.A. got close, but never that close. In reality, the scene is _still_ a pile of fabricated right-wing doody. Or so says [Richard Clarke,](http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/05/clarke-blasts-abc/) former counterterrorism czar: > [@](#): > > 1. Contrary to the movie, no US military or CIA personnel were on the ground in Afghanistan and saw bin Laden. > > 2. Contrary to the movie, the head of the Northern Alliance, Masood, was no where near the alleged bin Laden camp and did not see UBL. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/132 "2006-09-08T20:07:36Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I hear there’s this scene where Donnie Wahlberg (from New Kids on The Block, how cool is that?) plays a CIA agent sent to Asassinate Osama Bin Laden. He’d got him in his sights, only Clinton or Albright calls and tells him not to shoot. I could see why you guys wouldn’t want that fact getting out. [/QUOTE] **Scylla** , I’ve got a simple question: _Why didn’t this cause the “too good to be true” part of your bullshit meter to go off like an air-raid siren??_ I mean, here we have a supposed episode that had hitherto gone completely unpublicized. What did you think happened - that this was in the 9/11 Commission report, but nobody noticed it but the makers of this miniseries? Or did you think the writers of this miniseries had somehow unearthed and verified this story on their own?? I’ve got a bridge or two, and some great beachfront property, that I’d be happy to sell you. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/133 "2006-09-08T20:11:30Z")
Some interesting questions have been raised about who is behind “untitled History Project” [http://journals.democraticunderground.com/EarlG/75](http://journals.democraticunderground.com/EarlG/75) But actually, I’m more interested in whether anyone can make sense of “One goal of TFI is to fast-track UofN School of Digital Film interns, placing them within the film industry, not to give them jobs, but so that they can begin to impact and transform Hollywood from the inside out.” line. Why wouldn’t you want to give them jobs? Hunh? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/134 "2006-09-08T21:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] But actually, I’m more interested in whether anyone can make sense of “One goal of TFI is to fast-track UofN School of Digital Film interns, placing them within the film industry, not to give them jobs, but so that they can begin to impact and transform Hollywood from the inside out.” line. Why wouldn’t you want to give them jobs? Hunh? [/QUOTE] My reading of that line is that TFI isn’t fast-tracking the interns _solely_ to give them jobs-- that is, out of the goodness of their Christian hearts so that the interns may better earn their daily bread-- but instead to specifically promote the agenda of the Youth With A Mission organization in Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/135 "2006-09-08T23:45:10Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] **Scylla** , I’ve got a simple question: _Why didn’t this cause the “too good to be true” part of your bullshit meter to go off like an air-raid siren??_ Duuuh-uuurrr, I dunno, Dopey. > [@](#): > > I mean, here we have a supposed episode that had hitherto gone completely unpublicized. What did you think happened - that this was in the 9/11 Commission report, but nobody noticed it but the makers of this miniseries? Or did you think the writers of this miniseries had somehow unearthed and verified this story on their own?? Yeah, wow. It’s like amazing what the media can figure out. All this time, who knew? [sub]I see you quoted my entire post, except for the last sentence. Shame you missed that and failed to buy a clue[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/136 "2006-09-08T23:55:00Z")
Lookin’ for a doughnut - Dunkin’. For a pancake, IHOP. For a clue - not you. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/137 "2006-09-08T23:58:19Z")
**Scylla** : That post didn’t make much sense whether the last sentence was included or not. If you really want to say you don’t care about facts anymore, then why would anyone be interested in what you have to say??? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/138 "2006-09-09T00:33:30Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] **Scylla** : That post didn’t make much sense whether the last sentence was included or not. If you really want to say you don’t care about facts anymore, then why would anyone be interested in what you have to say??? [/QUOTE] I’d be interested in knowing _who is_, that post notwithstanding? I lost complete interest in whatever the a-hole has to say right about the time he got in the same vessel as the Swiftboaters. Don’t much care for scum. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/139 "2006-09-09T00:48:07Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] [QUOTE=RTFirefly] **Scylla** , I’ve got a simple question: _Why didn’t this cause the “too good to be true” part of your bullshit meter to go off like an air-raid siren??_ [/quote] Duuuh-uuurrr, I dunno, Dopey. [/quote] Oh, we already know it’s because you get your rocks off of [Republican porn](http://wackolib.wordpress.com/2006/06/14/republican-porn/) like this. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572/140 "2006-09-09T01:11:25Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] **Scylla** : That post didn’t make much sense whether the last sentence was included or not. If you really want to say you don’t care about facts anymore, then why would anyone be interested in what you have to say??? [/QUOTE] I didn’t say I stopped caring about the facts, I said this stopped being about the facts. So, obviously I was not asserting that the New Kids International Asassination Squad incident was factual. I thought it looked like an obvious joke, but again, my subtlety doesn’t seem to be working. Enough people have made the misconception that it’s clear the fault is mine. So: * * * I sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding. My honest opinion is that the Marky Mark asassination attempt incident being suggested in the film is inconsistent with the facts, and is unacceptable as a good faith dramatic portrayal. I understand that things must be condensed and spelled and altered for narrative purposes, and I’m aware of poetic license, but I sincerely beleive that this incident as described in CNN alters very germaine facts and provides a false impression and casts blame falsely, leaving viewers with a false impression. I thought that my hyperbolizing this incident further ridiculed it and that my statement about it not being about the truth further showed that I did not beleive it. In this, I erred, and I apologize for the misconception. I also beleive that Farenheit 9/11 is not a good faith representation and creates false impressions that are not truthfully founded and I was seeking to point out that neither side of the media seems interested in documenting the truth but rather in controlling the frame. I take back all the mean things and insults I said subsequent to that post, and would ask for forgiveness from those people I said them to, while simultaneously acknowledging that their ire with me is justified and righteous. It was my error. Bad writing on my part. I’m sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-the-ministry-of-truth-9-11-the-movie/371572.md?page=8)