# From whence and when did the term "Woo" as a term for crackpottery come to prominence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 19, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193 "2011-01-19T13:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/21 "2011-01-19T16:26:50Z")
Oh yeah. There’s my favorite discussion of this term on this board [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567685). ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/22 "2011-01-19T16:54:22Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ve seen the word “Woo” being used increasingly on the boards in reference to things that I’d consider as being “Crackpot” … > Now, until the past few weeks, I’ve never heard the term in that context before; it’s always been in the sense of “Trying to win someone’s hand in marriage or bringing them around to your point of view” (_"Wooing Mrs. Smith’s daughter_" or “_The Silly Party has been trying to woo undecided voters with their promises of free chocolate on alternate Februaries_”), an exclamation made by drunk or excited people at parties/events, … I’ve been mostly aware of “_ **pitching** _ woo” as a euphemism for sex. I first heard _**[the expression](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pitch_woo)**_ eons ago in the Jerry Lewis movie [“Visit to a Small Planet”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visit_to_a_Small_Planet) – a light-hearted farce based on Gore Vidal’s [Goodyear\_Television\_Playhouse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodyear_Television_Playhouse) dark science fiction drama by the same name. It brings to mind “[making whoopee](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_whoopee)” (second definition) as well. _ **- Jack** _ ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/23 "2011-01-19T18:29:16Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Oh yeah. There’s my favorite discussion of this term on this board [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567685). Ah yes, I remember that thread well. There’s some fine insanity in there. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/24 "2011-01-19T22:43:39Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Spending way too much time on this than I ought, I did (1) a [Google ngram chart](http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=woo&year_start=2000&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=3) that showed a very distinct rise in usage around 2004. A very lazy google search on ‘woo-woo crackpot’ shows most of the results in 2010, with a cluster of hits in 2004, 2005, 2006. > > I’m guessing it’s been out there for a while in fairly obscure circles, then the skeptic boards started running with it around 2004, increasing steadily until it hit some larger tipping point this year. If you search for “woo woo” as a phrase and apply minimal smoothing, you can see [this chart](http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=woo+woo&year_start=1950&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=1), which shows a steady, pronounced increase from 1965 to 1970, a second surge in use in 1991 (even clearer [with no smoothing applied](http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=woo+woo&year_start=1950&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=0)), and then another dramatic increase in 2004. I suspect the late 60s bump was due to the rise in the “new age” movement, and the application of the term “woo-woo” to such, but I don’t have any evidence for this hypothesis. Interestingly, looking at words like “new age” and “horoscope” don’t show any significant trend around 1970, which we tend to think of as the start of the popularization of such things. I suspect the surge in 1991 could be traced to James Randi using it, but again, I don’t have anything to support this contention. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/25 "2011-01-20T00:08:39Z")
Increasing use of the term “woo” can be at least partially explained by there being so much more of it these days. Or so it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/26 "2011-01-20T00:55:31Z")
> [@Ronald\_C.Semone](#): > > I don’t think it is just the recency illusion. I do not recall ever seeing the word before a month or so ago when I encountered it on one of the other SDMB. I had no idea what it meant. It wasn’t until I saw it used several times over the next few weeks that I could garner its meaning from the contexts. I have not yet seen it in a newspaper; when I do, the word officially joins oxymoron. This has been my experience too; I’ve never heard the term anywhere except the SDMB and even then it’s only been in the past couple of weeks. Never heard the term on TV, the radio, or read it in a newspaper- I’m not doubting that it’s a real word, I’m just working out why it really does appear to have become popular here recently for no particular reason. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/27 "2011-01-20T01:19:10Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I’ll take my hypercorrection where I like, thank you very much. It is not _particularly_ the accusative form of where. I see that KJV cite trotted out al the time, but that appears to be an exception: the vast majority of examples use it exactly as I have described. [Merriam Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whence), [Oxford English Dictionary](http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0948240#m_en_gb0948240), etc. > > Regardless of the above tiff, the “and where” in the title is even more redundant. > > Woo! Did you read your own cites? > [@OED](#): > > Strictly speaking, whence means‘ from what place’, as in whence did you come? Thus, the preposition from in from whence did you come?is redundant, and its use is considered incorrect by some. The use with from is very common, though , and has been used by reputable writers since the 14th century. Shakespeare uses “from whence” numerous times. Good enough for the Bard, good enough for anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/28 "2011-01-20T01:27:48Z")
A quick [Google search for “woo-woo”](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1067&bih=769&q=%22woo-woo%22+site%3Aboards.straightdope.com&aq=o&aqi=&aql=&oq=) while limiting the results to the SDMB returns plenty of results from throughout the years where the term was used in this context. Clicking through just the first few pages of results I find clear examples from 2003 and 2004 and I’m sure even further back with a more detailed search. We also seem to enjoy using this term to describe the sound of a train whistle, the legendary chant of Curly Howard, an expression of celebration, e.g. “woo woo hoo!!” but it’s still easy to pick out examples where it was used to describe magical thinking and bad science from at least 7-8 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/29 "2011-01-20T01:39:54Z")
I’ve always thought of “woo-woo” as a vocalization of the _ **Twilight Zone** _ theme. Pretty appropriate, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/30 "2011-01-20T02:58:45Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > If you search for “woo woo” as a phrase and apply minimal smoothing, you can see [this chart](http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=woo+woo&year_start=1950&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=1), which shows a steady, pronounced increase from 1965 to 1970, a second surge in use in 1991 (even clearer [with no smoothing applied](http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=woo+woo&year_start=1950&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=0)), and then another dramatic increase in 2004. > > I suspect the late 60s bump was due to the rise in the “new age” movement, and the application of the term “woo-woo” to such, but I don’t have any evidence for this hypothesis. Interestingly, looking at words like “new age” and “horoscope” don’t show any significant trend around 1970, which we tend to think of as the start of the popularization of such things. No such thing. The early occurrence of “woo-woo,” when it’s not an artifact of Google’s poor character recognition, is almost entirely onomatopoeic or salacious; I looked at every single document up through 1970, and sampled dozens up to 1989 – trains sounds, wolf sounds, singing, nicknames, and more, but not a single mention of the type in the OP. I could have missed something in the 20-year span I sampled, but since Google only indexes books and magazines, it’s not worth the effort; the first public appearance of this usage is likely to appear in an interview of some sort. Maybe a newspaper search of some sort would be revealing. > [@](#): > > I suspect the surge in 1991 could be traced to James Randi using it, but again, I don’t have anything to support this contention. I narrowed your Google search to 1991 and found a handful of uses of “woo-woo” as a description for something spiritual or pseudoscientific, broadly including references to Jack Kerouac, God, Gaia, “medicine” in the native american or faith healing sense, Earth First!, literary criticism of mythology, and my favorite, “Journey into the “woo-woo”: A theoretical exploration of the use of metaphor in psychotherapy.” Oh, and one writer used it as an epithet for unrealistic business expectations. I don’t doubt that Randi was using it by then, but there’s no evidence here. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/31 "2011-01-20T05:10:47Z")
Wow, cool! I thought about going back and looking at the actual citations, but I didn’t have time when I posted. Interesting that we can pinpoint 1991 then as the first popular use of woo-woo to mean (basically) bullshit. That ngram viewer is an amazing tool! ---
**Author:** ![wbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/439d5e/32.png) [@wbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wbeaty)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/32 "2011-01-20T05:21:58Z")
Yes, it’s from wind noise in old empty houses, intended to indicate people who believe in ghosts and everything similar. I vaguely recall encountering “wooOOOOO” as a kid in the late 60s. If you want to ridicule/dismiss something as crazy, and to show that you’re definitely not part of that trash, you describe the crazy ideas while rotating your finger around one side of your head, and perhaps roll your eyes. But if you’re on the phone where the “craziness rotary finger sign” doesn’t work, instead you say “wooOOOoo.” I’ve always assumed that it came from something like this: So, you actually BELIEVE …in _GHOSTS?!_ WooooOOOOOooo! (said while prancing around making scary claws from hands.) 🙂 It certainly fulfilled a needed function. If you’re skeptical of some crazy claims (not exclusively ghosts,) but if you need to describe them in detail, listeners might assume that you’re a believer! To put a stop that that, just describe them with a sneer while throwing in some "oh yeah riiiight"s. Even better is to describe them while sneering, AND rotating your finger around the side of your head, AND ending each sentence with “WoooOOOOooo!” That way nobody can mistake you for a supporter. And so …how do you run a search on a word with a variable number of "ooo"s? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/33 "2011-01-20T05:28:12Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > No such thing. The early occurrence of “woo-woo,” when it’s not an artifact of Google’s poor character recognition, is almost entirely onomatopoeic or salacious; I looked at every single document up through 1970, and sampled dozens up to 1989 . **Lance Turbo** ’s post has a use from 1986 (though his link won’t load for me). And in the quoted text the woman drops the term without explanation, suggesting it was at least in somewhat common use at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/34 "2011-01-20T06:48:21Z")
I don’t know about origin, but the phrase always makes me think of Daffy Duck going into an insanity fit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/35 "2011-01-20T22:26:59Z")
It may have been used earlier, but on old USENET groups I used to frequent in the late 90’s it took off after the skeptics got fed up with the overwhelming number of names the paranormal believers used in their arguments: septics, skepticultists, skeptinazis, etc. We got a little tired of having no descriptive term to bash them in reply, so when woowoo came around it took off like a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/36 "2011-01-21T02:54:25Z")
Looking through the Google results, the term seems to appear in the late 80s. Joe E. Barnhart, Stephen Winzenburg \*\*1988 \*\*“_Jim and Tammy: charismatic intrigue inside PTL_” > [@](#): > > Articles on Shirley Maclaine’s latest balmy excursions into Woo-Woo Land are easier to write, requiring minimum discipline and no scientific training at all. Terry Cole-Whittaker **1987** “\*Inner Path from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be: A Spiritual Odyssey” \* > [@](#): > > This is not a book about how to get to Woo- Woo Land. This is a book about how to make your life work right now, right here, today and tomorrow. Hillel Schwartz \*\*1990 \*\*"_Century’s end: a cultural history of the fin-de-siècle–from the 990s to the 1990s"_ > [@](#): > > available in the United States at 2500 New Age bookstores, which also carry cassettes of the soothing music of George Winston, a stride pianist suspicious of New Age “woo-woos” but “half woo-woo myself.” Laura Coltelli **1990** “_Winged words: American Indian writers speak_” > [@](#): > > They’re deeply engaged in learning self-reliance — and in forming communities that are realistic instead of just woo-woo, sentimental rose- colored-glasses stuff. \*The ecologist: Volumes 20-21 \* **1990** > [@](#): > > Many within the movement worry about excessive preoccupation with spirituality, with what they call “woo woo”. John Davis, himself responsible for much discussion of spirituality and ritual, cautions: > "Spiritual approaches to the planet seem to be of growing concern these days. The last issue of the Journal reflects this trend. We ran many articles on sacred sites, rituals, and such, but very few articles pertaining to specific wild lands. (Almost we replaced ‘No Compromise in Defense of Mother Earth’ on the masthead with ‘All Aboard the Woo Woo Choo Choo’.) Marjorie Gersh \*\*1990 \*\* “_California and Hawaii publishing market place: a comprehensive directory of markets, resources, and opportunities for writers_” In a list of things not to submit for publication > [@](#): > > Do not want: poetry; fiction; children’s; get-rich-quick; “woo-woo” new age. Rik Scarce **1990** _“Eco-warriors: understanding the radical environmental movement”_ > [@](#): > > There is also a “woo-woo” faction of highly spiritual devotees of Earth First! who prefer meditation to action. From an etymological point of view, these references indicate that the term became popularised in certain groups in the late 70s/ early 80s sometime. By the late 80s the term was still unusual enough that it required quotes when used alone. The fact that “woo woo land” is used multiple times in the late 80s and doesn’t receive quotes suggests that either this is the real origin of the expression, or else it is self-evident enough not to require them. I did find one \*possible \*reference from **1976** “_Spiritus mundi: essays on literature, myth, and society_” Northrop Frye. Referring to the work of German author Oswald Spengler: > [@](#): > > He is fond of murky biological language, like calling man “a splendid beast of prey” and much of his imagery is Halloween imagery full of woo- woo noises and shivery Wagnerian whinnies about the “dark” goings-on of nature and destiny. The relevance of this is debatable IMO. The reference is to woo-woo noises. not to woo woo beliefs, and as **Nametag** points out, there are endless examples of onomatopoeic usage of “woo” prior to the late 80s. However it is interesting for two reasons. Firstly it is the earliest use of the term in reference to pseudoscientific writings. Secondly it supports the “ghost/scary noises” origin of the term. It is clear from context that it is meant to refer to scary noises, and that he knew that his audience would understand that without it being explained. So while I’m undecided that this is the earliest example of woo-woo being used to mean garbage, it is an interesting date point. > [@Chipacabra](#): > > I don’t know about origin, but the phrase always makes me think of Daffy Duck going into an insanity fit. Me too. In fact that’s where I always assumed it originated. > [@Bugs Bunny 1939](#): > > Ohhhhhh, Im going cuckoo, woo-woo! > Here comes the choo-choo, woo-woo! > Im so gooney, Looney Tuney, tetched in the head > Please pass the ketchup, I think Ill go to bed! > Am I the screwball, woo-woo/ Throw me the eightball, woo-woo > Once I knew a thing or two > now Im a buckaroo > Hinky-dinky parlais… vous-woo! And of course it was used by the Three Stooges as well, in a similar context. So there seem to be two equally plausible explanations: the “spooky ghost noise” explanation and the Daffy Duck style madness “woo woo” sound. The Frye reference given above suggests the ghost story origin. The “Woo Woo Land” usages popular in the 80s suggests the Daffy Duck origin. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/37 "2011-01-21T03:27:17Z")
I never heard the term “woo” used outside of an archaic romantic context until I came here. But I picked up its meaning easily. ---
**Author:** ![Deegeea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Deegeea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deegeea)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193/38 "2011-01-24T15:34:20Z")
I know the term woo-woo from a collection of essays entitled Making Book, by Teresa Nielsen Hayden. In the last article “The Pastafazool Cycle” she uses it in the first sentence and the last sentence, and throughout. In an introductory note the book has to the article, Nielsen Hayden writes, “May 1991… ‘Woo-woo,’ a technical term in publishing signifying anything from ‘new age’ to ‘occult’ to ‘pure wishful thinking,’ was much deployed.” The context of the original writing of the article was an online discussion forum on GEnie. So that might be one possible indication that the spike in 1991 is really indicative that the term was in regular use in publishing and scholarship circles at that time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-whence-and-when-did-the-term-woo-as-a-term-for-crackpottery-come-to-prominence/568193.md?page=1)