# Front loader washers : worth it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 23, 2015, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589 "2015-08-23T07:39:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![zwede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ac91a4/32.png) [@zwede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwede)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/21 "2015-08-23T22:40:28Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > When not being used, I could reach in and turn the drum by hand, and I heard all kinds of gurgling noises. In other words, the water from the previous use was not entirely going down the drain, but some of it stayed in the pooled in the machine somewhere. > > Is this a thing with all front loaders? (ETA: That would also explain, I suppose, why front loaders get smelly. I don’t think they dry out very quickly between uses like I think a top loader does.) Must be a crappy machine. My LG front loader has no gurgling noises when the drum is spun. I leave the hatch unlatched when not in use and there is no smell. The washer is 11 years old, and I’ve had no problems with it. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/22 "2015-08-23T22:43:50Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Mine is on an upper floor without issue, though you can definitely feel a minor vibration during the high-speed spin, but it supposedly has an anti-vibration auto-balancing system. The back of the drum in a front loader has a heavy slab of concrete attached to damp out vibrations caused by an unbalanced load. Also, when it starts a spin cycle (mine goes at 800 rpm) it winds up slowly. If the balance is bad, it stops and does a few rotations. It is also reducing the weight of the load as water is being squeezed out. > [@Senegoid](#): > > I never looked at the insides of one of these washers. Obviously, there must be an outer drum that’s not full of little drain holes, surrounding the inner drum that you see with all the little holes. That’s where I think there was some water being left behind. > > That squicked me out. It means that when I wash my laundry, my wash water has part of the previous user’s wash (well, rinse) water mixed in with it. It also means that my own rinse water has part of the soapy dirty wash water mixed in with it. > > Is this a thing with all front loaders? (ETA: That would also explain, I suppose, why front loaders get smelly. I don’t think they dry out very quickly between uses like I think a top loader does.) I think that the one you looked at was faulty. The pump outlet on mine is at the bottom of the outer tank and it is empty (you can hear it pumping dry) every time. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/23 "2015-08-23T23:31:52Z")
I get the impression that in Europe, people are more likely to have the washing machine (or the combined washer/dryer) in the kitchen, while in the US, they’re typically in a separate laundry room (even if that’s only a closet). So the fact that you can slide a front-loader under the kitchen countertop is a useful feature for the Europeans. (It would also be useful in the US, since you could put a countertop over it, or build it into the pantry, but it’s less urgent.) ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/24 "2015-08-24T00:14:54Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I get the impression that in Europe, people are more likely to have the washing machine (or the combined washer/dryer) in the kitchen, while in the US, they’re typically in a separate laundry room (even if that’s only a closet). So the fact that you can slide a front-loader under the kitchen countertop is a useful feature for the Europeans. (It would also be useful in the US, since you could put a countertop over it, or build it into the pantry, but it’s less urgent.) I asked about this in a thread a while back, why I only ever saw front loaders on Brit-coms. This was the consensus, that in Europe and the UK houses are smaller on average than in the US so washers are often in or off the kitchen and therefore need to be under-counter front loaders. In the US they are never in the kitchen, but either in a devoted laundry room or (more often) in the basement. Consequently top loaders, which are cheaper to manufacture, are overwhelmingly the norm. And although they do have cost advantages in the long term, in the US, because demand for them is so low, front loaders are \*significantly \*more expensive in up front purchase price than top loaders. They are upscale and rare enough that I’ve never even known anybody who owned one… ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/25 "2015-08-24T00:46:02Z")
Front loaders are pretty much ubiquitous in Australia, for whatever reason. I suspect their lower water usage has a lot to do with it, along with the general “englishness” of the country. Much of what I’d say has been covered, but I’ll say it anyway. 😃 They take a while longer, as I recall, to do a load of laundry. I reckon on a load of laundry, with my usual settings, to take an hour and a half. I can’t really speak to whether they’re gentler on clothing, having not really noticed, but it seems logical. The one we have has lasted about eight years. There was a problem with a musty smell; I cleaned up the seal good and started leaving the door open, and that solved it. As said, you can’t really stop it to toss in a forgotten item; it takes about five minutes from stopping once it’s started for it to open up. Mine doesn’t ding when it’s done, and it takes about two minutes from when it’s stopped until when the door will open. Oddly, in Australia, dryers are not usually vented to the outside, as is the norm in the States. Expect the laundry room (usually separate) to get steamy. Dryers are somewhat less common, I think, though drying on the line is usually impossible in the winter (dank, chilly as they are). Indoor drying racks are pretty common. ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/26 "2015-08-24T00:56:02Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > That squicked me out. It means that when I wash my laundry, my wash water has part of the previous user’s wash (well, rinse) water mixed in with it. It also means that my own rinse water has part of the soapy dirty wash water mixed in with it. > > Is this a thing with all front loaders? (ETA: That would also explain, I suppose, why front loaders get smelly. I don’t think they dry out very quickly between uses like I think a top loader does.) My understanding is that there is a liquid-filled “balance ring” on some washers that helps compensate when the load is out of balance. It wouldn’t really make sense for the outer tub to rotate with the inner, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/27 "2015-08-24T02:50:36Z")
I’ve found that if I’m doing a delicate load (generally overkill, as the permanent press setting is quite gentle), sometimes it doesn’t drain 100%. There’s an 8 minute supplementary drain & spin cycle that once in a very great while (maybe once ever couple of months) I must run. Then the clothes are even drier! ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/28 "2015-08-24T04:13:24Z")
> [@Baracus](#): > > My understanding is that there is a liquid-filled “balance ring” on some washers that helps compensate when the load is out of balance. It wouldn’t really make sense for the outer tub to rotate with the inner, I would think. So do you think this water mixes with the user’s wash/rinse water? If so, yuck! I lived in a 4-story apartment building with two such washers on each floor, and every one of them was like this. Overall, the machines and dryers and laundry rooms were kept clean and well-maintained. So I don’t think it could have simply been a clogged pump or something wrong like that. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/29 "2015-08-24T04:41:55Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > So do you think this water mixes with the user’s wash/rinse water? If so, yuck! > > I lived in a 4-story apartment building with two such washers on each floor, and every one of them was like this. Overall, the machines and dryers and laundry rooms were kept clean and well-maintained. So I don’t think it could have simply been a clogged pump or something wrong like that. If the leftover water is clean rinsewater, and that water contributes to the water used when filling the tub for the wash phase for your clothes…well. If you are that much of a germophobe, keep in mind, you are also sharing the metal drum, the wash pump, the hoses, the laundry room itself…lots and lots of places for small amounts of bacteria to hide and get contributed. Use hot water + bleach if you are that worried about it. Sharing rinsewater for the next wash cycle makes a lot of sense. If I were designing such a washer, I might design it to work that way, keeping a few gallons of clean rinsewater in the drum for the next wash cycle. I’d have a timer and flush the rinsewater before the next wash cycle if too much time passed. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/30 "2015-08-24T07:10:24Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > And although they do have cost advantages in the long term, in the US, because demand for them is so low, front loaders are \*significantly \*more expensive in up front purchase price than top loaders. They are upscale and rare enough that I’ve never even known anybody who owned one… is that true though? I can easily find a [Bosch machine](http://www.coopelectricalshop.co.uk/Bosch-WAE24063GB-6Kg-1200-Spin-Washing-Machine-in-White/id-BOS-WSH-WAE24063GB-W?gclid=Cj0KEQjwgeuuBRCiwpD0hP3Cg4kBEiQAHflm1l1PrTww_-q9boRR8BMovyvCPfWI599IdPZMLjVY5DkaAqVN8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds) that is the equivalent of $350 in the UK, are top-loaders much, much cheaper than that in the USA? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/31 "2015-08-24T07:28:14Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > is that true though? > > I can easily find a [Bosch machine](http://www.coopelectricalshop.co.uk/Bosch-WAE24063GB-6Kg-1200-Spin-Washing-Machine-in-White/id-BOS-WSH-WAE24063GB-W?gclid=Cj0KEQjwgeuuBRCiwpD0hP3Cg4kBEiQAHflm1l1PrTww_-q9boRR8BMovyvCPfWI599IdPZMLjVY5DkaAqVN8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds) that is the equivalent of $350 in the UK, are top-loaders much, much cheaper than that in the USA? Comparing the cheapest 3.6 cubic foot (about 102 liters) top load washer with a similar size front load washer at a Harrisonburg, VA Lowes store (that’s the location that it assigned me to, I guess) gives a pretty hefty premium: $379 versus $629. To be fair, the top loader is some generic-sounding brand called “Hotpoint” and the front loader is a G.E. The lowest priced Bosch front loader is $944 USD. Keep in mind all of these are pre-tax prices. The cheapest big brand top loaders of the same size at $449. I have a Bosch front loader in my company housing, and the only thing wrong with it is it’s miniscule by American standards (there’s no way to wash a king sized comforter, for example), and as mentioned upthread, water will accumulate in the door seal if you don’t dry it out and leave the door open. Leaving the door open is contrary to my (minimal) obsessive-compulsiveness. What’s more interesting is I have something called a condenser dryer, which I’m led to believe is somewhat common in Europe. I’d never seen or heard of one in the USA, where all dryers are vented to the outside. It’s slow as heck (it’s not gas, for obvious reasons), but it’s rather convenient. I keep asking myself if the water it collects is potable. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/32 "2015-08-24T11:28:04Z")
Your dryer collects water? Wha? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/33 "2015-08-24T11:36:02Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Your dryer collects water? Wha? The clue is in the name “condenser dryer”; I have no idea why the condensation can’t drain away wherever the washing and spun-dry water goes, but there are such machines. I have used one in an apartment in the Netherlands - it doesn’t seem to collect a great deal of water, maybe a couple of litres at most, and it wasn’t a great problem to empty it out. (Also, I don’t have a problem with leaving the machine door open to air for a while after it’s finished - best way to make sure you don’t get black mould in there, and I don’t believe any machine will dry completely straight off). ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/34 "2015-08-24T12:05:31Z")
For another trip down memory lane: if memory serves, top-loaders with a central agitator post (and/or twintubs with a separate spin-dryer) were the norm in the UK up until the point where people started preferring fully-fitted kitchens with continuous worktops (late 60s into the 70s). I think the last time I saw a top-loader with agitator in use was in Rethymnon harbour in Crete in the late 70s: a fisherman was using it to tenderise octopus. ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/35 "2015-08-24T13:33:25Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > So do you think this water mixes with the user’s wash/rinse water? If so, yuck! > > I lived in a 4-story apartment building with two such washers on each floor, and every one of them was like this. Overall, the machines and dryers and laundry rooms were kept clean and well-maintained. So I don’t think it could have simply been a clogged pump or something wrong like that. No, the ring is sealed. Looking into it a little more, some washers use a partially filled ring that results in the sloshing sound.Other use an oil-filled ring with ball bearings inside that make much less noise. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/36 "2015-08-24T13:33:56Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > The clue is in the name “condenser dryer”; I have no idea why the condensation can’t drain away wherever the washing and spun-dry water goes, but there are such machines. I have used one in an apartment in the Netherlands - it doesn’t seem to collect a great deal of water, maybe a couple of litres at most, and it wasn’t a great problem to empty it out. Yes, this. It looks to be about 1.5 to 2.0 liters of water in the reservoir. Given that the washing machine spins at 800 RPM wringing out most of the water, a single load in the dryer doesn’t produce too much water – maybe a liter at the most (also these are small machines; like I said: no comforters). As to why it doesn’t drain, I have no idea! It’s placed right next to the washing machine which does obviously drain. Maybe it’s an option; I don’t know - it’s part of the rental house. The fact that the reservoir is about the size of my CamelBak is what makes me wonder if it’s potable! ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/37 "2015-08-24T13:34:48Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I was open to the idea of front loading washers initially. Then they started selling a product to remove ’ that smell’ and keep it from getting into your clothes. Wha? > > It seems there are parts which, if your machine isn’t left long enough to completely dry out between loads, develope a nasty smell, which can get into your clothes. And, with that, I’m out! > > A simple Google search will reveal just how many people are having this issue. No thanks, I’m not looking for one more thing to clean! As racer72 said, Just don’t close the door. Leave it cracked open. Never had a problem with ours and we abuse the heck out of it. I like that you can put king sized bed quilts in it. Much more capacity than a top loader. Sorry, don’t know the brand off of the top of my head, I’m not at home. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/38 "2015-08-24T13:41:25Z")
The Bosch Maxx 5 I bought a few years ago was second-hand from a reconditioning company in Colchester ( near-by coincidentally ) on eBay ( eg: they had masses more ) for around £110 plus $40 delivery. It will last a long time. Possibly not as long or as well as a Miele, but a Miele is the Kors Vodka of washing-machines. It is 86 cm tall, 60 cm wide and 56 cm thick and weighs 73 kg, I daresay someone could translate those to real measurements, but the capacity is 5 KG wash and 2.5 kg drying, So no king-size duvets ( which size I prefer ), nor rucksacks, but most things under. For it is a washer/dryer — I generally dry by hand; but it’s useful in winter and obviates having to have another drying machine. — I will assume that means a condenser drier, but there’s no water about: it’s fairly crisp inside after a drying cycle and I never have to pump anything. If there are no cheaper reconditioned front-loaders in the US prolly because there were few imported to be sold new. Most things are cheaper to buy in America. ( The house size difference is more strongly marked in Britain, the western countries of the continent are bigger than that: for something that can’t really be owned, land is oddly expensive even in countries that have a lot to spare. ) ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/39 "2015-08-24T15:31:06Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I have a Bosch front loader in my company housing, and the only thing wrong with it is it’s miniscule by American standards (there’s no way to wash a king sized comforter, for example), and as mentioned upthread, water will accumulate in the door seal if you don’t dry it out and leave the door open. This was another thing I wanted to mention. The front loading washers that are sold in America are large. At least as big, and usually bigger, than a top loader so they won’t fit under a counter top. I lived in an apartment complex that once added a front loader to its laundry room. Although it cost 50¢ more than the top loaders it did a nice job so I used to always use it. However, as others have said, it too started to suffer from having a horrendous stink, like sewer water. It was only every so often, but eventually the complex had it removed and replaced with just another top loader. And it also sometimes had a small puddle of water left in it, which seemed to be related to when it stank. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/40 "2015-08-24T15:34:59Z")
The Bosch brands aren’t available in large quantities in Houston, but LG and Samsungs are reasonably common and available. It’s gonna cost me between 600 and 1500 bucks for a set in decent or new condition though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589.md?page=3)