# Front loader washers : worth it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 23, 2015, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589 "2015-08-23T07:39:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/41 "2015-08-24T15:51:29Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > I asked about this in a thread a while back, why I only ever saw front loaders on Brit-coms. This was the consensus, that in Europe and the UK houses are smaller on average than in the US so washers are often in or off the kitchen and therefore need to be under-counter front loaders. \*\*In the US they are never in the kitchen, but either in a devoted laundry room or (more often) in the basement. \*\*Consequently top loaders, which are cheaper to manufacture, are overwhelmingly the norm. > > And although they do have cost advantages in the long term, in the US, because demand for them is so low, front loaders are \*significantly \*more expensive in up front purchase price than top loaders. **They are upscale and rare enough that I’ve never even known anybody who owned one** … Boldings mine. Under-counter washer/dryer sets are very, very common in the US. … If you live in a high-rise condo or luxo apartment building. Probably 3/4ths of my neighbors (and I) have them. I agree that under-counter / in-kitchen washer / dryers are exceedingly rare in US single family houses. Front-loading normal US sized machines are also pretty much universal now in upscale new construction or renovations, be they condos or single family homes. The fact a sizeable fraction of the machines on display at lowbrow appliance outfits like Sears and the big box DIY stores are front-loaders ought to be a good clue that they’re no longer the exclusive territory of the maids of the rich and famous. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/42 "2015-08-24T16:12:21Z")
If you compare the top load machine’s larger capacity and shorter cycle time (to the front loader), is there any savings? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/43 "2015-08-24T16:13:57Z")
[Quote=Hail Ants] I lived in an apartment complex that once added a front loader to its laundry room. Although it cost 50¢ more than the top loaders it did a nice job so I used to always use it. However, as others have said, it too started to suffer from having a horrendous stink, like sewer water. It was only every so often, but eventually the complex had it removed and replaced with just another top loader. And it also sometimes had a small puddle of water left in it, which seemed to be related to when it stank. [/QUOTE] Possibly absent-minded guests. [QUOTE=Habeed] The Bosch brands aren’t available in large quantities in Houston, but LG and Samsungs are reasonably common and available. It’s gonna cost me between 600 and 1500 bucks for a set in decent or new condition though. [/quote] Whereas you could get a ‘[**European-sized**](http://www.amazon.com/W3038-Miele-Front-Load-Washer/dp/B00MB39X02)’ Miele washer alone for a mere **$2000**! White unfortunately, but they do other [**colours**](http://miele-at-home.com/). [href^=“[Amazon.co.uk: Low Prices in Electronics, Books, Sports Equipment & more](http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/external-search?)”] {display:none !important;} ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/44 "2015-08-24T16:16:58Z")
For some reason the editing is shot on this board. When I hit edit the quoted post is blank. Do I can’t clear that error. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/45 "2015-08-24T16:53:24Z")
Okay, next question: WHY are front-loaders more expensive than top-loaders? I see one remark above that they are more expensive because there is less demand for them. 😕 Meaning there are less of them in production compared to top loaders? I see other remarks above that front-loaders are more complicated machines than top-loaders. This is what I’m wondering about. What is complicated about a front-loader, more so than a top-loader? I get that front-loaders have this habit of reversing the direction of the drum rotation every so often (I wish dryers would do that too!), but is there something complicated about that? Top-loaders, in contrast, reverse the direction of the agitator with _every single oscillation!_ You’d think they are driven by a reciprocating internal-combustion engine. And both top- and front-loaders share the feature of having multiple cycles (wash, rinse, maybe pre-soak and extra rinse) that all work about the same: Pour some water in tub, slosh clothes in water, drain and spin. Top-loaders would seem to be needful of being built MUCH stronger: Much more water, thus much heavier load (including all that water), and the agitator has to move all that weight, including reversing the direction of motion with _every slosh._ It must take an awfully strong engine and strong belts and other parts to do that, compared to a front-loader. So what is especially complicated or especially expensive about front-loaders? ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/46 "2015-08-24T17:42:43Z")
I have one problem with front-loaders. I have a back issue, and stooping to awkwardly reach inside a front-loader and pull out heavy wet clothes can be problematic. If they’re newer, top-loaders can also be energy and water-efficient, which ours is. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/47 "2015-08-24T18:46:59Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Okay, next question: WHY are front-loaders more expensive than top-loaders? > > I see one remark above that they are more expensive because there is less demand for them. 😕 Meaning there are less of them in production compared to top loaders? > > I see other remarks above that front-loaders are more complicated machines than top-loaders. This is what I’m wondering about. What is complicated about a front-loader, more so than a top-loader? I get that front-loaders have this habit of reversing the direction of the drum rotation every so often (I wish dryers would do that too!), but is there something complicated about that? Top-loaders, in contrast, reverse the direction of the agitator with _every single oscillation!_ You’d think they are driven by a reciprocating internal-combustion engine. And both top- and front-loaders share the feature of having multiple cycles (wash, rinse, maybe pre-soak and extra rinse) that all work about the same: Pour some water in tub, slosh clothes in water, drain and spin. > > Top-loaders would seem to be needful of being built MUCH stronger: Much more water, thus much heavier load (including all that water), and the agitator has to move all that weight, including reversing the direction of motion with _every slosh._ It must take an awfully strong engine and strong belts and other parts to do that, compared to a front-loader. So what is especially complicated or especially expensive about front-loaders? Dunno. However the go-to site in Britain is [**White Goods Help**](http://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/washing-machines-category/), run _'by a UK engineer with over 30 years experience_’ ( and not unjaded ), where many questions on laundering and washers and such things are [**answered**](http://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/category/washing-machines/). Now in hideous Flat Style\*\*.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/48 "2015-08-24T18:51:24Z")
I think it’s because it’s more difficult to get something to spin perfectly balanced, upright, like on a wall, than sitting flat on the floor. Doubly so if you’re going to fill it half up with water. (But I’m no engineer, just guessing!) ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/49 "2015-08-24T20:05:27Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > The clue is in the name “condenser dryer”; I have no idea why the condensation can’t drain away wherever the washing and spun-dry water goes, but there are such machines. I have used one in an apartment in the Netherlands - it doesn’t seem to collect a great deal of water, maybe a couple of litres at most, and it wasn’t a great problem to empty it out. > > (Also, I don’t have a problem with leaving the machine door open to air for a while after it’s finished - best way to make sure you don’t get black mould in there, and I don’t believe any machine will dry completely straight off). I’ve got one (a condenser dryer, that is). With a regular dryer, all that water vapor has to go somewhere, which is why dryers are generally vented to the outside via a hose. Condenser dryers don’t have to be vented to the outside. I’ve got a stacked washer and dryer in a closet off my kitchen. This is in a New York City apartment, so space is at a premium. The advantage of a front-loader here is that you can put the dryer on top of it. It’s great. However, the brand of washer and dryer I have (Asko) absolutely sucks. Horrible. They break all the time. And parts are not easily available in the US, nor are repair people who are familiar with the brand. Get some other brand. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/50 "2015-08-24T21:08:47Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > The advantage of a front-loader here is that you can put the dryer on top of it. I have a combination washer-dryer in the one machine, which are pretty common here (I think there was a separate thread on this): [Some examples from one of the main retailers in the UK](http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/household-appliances/laundry/washer-dryers/332_3120_30207_xx_xx/xx-criteria.html) But it is true you can’t wash or dry as big a load at one time as most people in the US may be used to. I can do a double-size blanket without any problems or a lightweight artificial fibre duvet, but probably not a mid-weight duvet or heavier (not so much because of the weight as the volume). ---
**Author:** ![Khendrask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@Khendrask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khendrask)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/51 "2015-08-25T13:30:25Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > My wife was concerned about this when we were shopping for a new washer about 3 years ago. A Facebook friend of hers told her to wipe the seal dry after each load and leave the door open an inch or so after your last load will eliminate the problem. So far she has done this and we have never had any problems with smells. We don’t even wipe it down, just leave the door cracked. Not even sure if that is necessary, since we do a load of clothes every two or three days. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Front loader use less water and soap, and less electricity. The clothes come out less wet than with a top loader and then use less electricity (or gas) in the dryer. Possibly the maintenance cost are higher or the life of the top loader shorter because the door must seal. They are also not as rough on your clothes as a top loader, so they will last longer and save you more money. This is the big one, and add to it capacity. We could never fit out bedding in the top loader, but the front loader? No problem. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/52 "2015-08-25T14:21:09Z")
One difference that takes getting used to is that with a front loader, the goal is to stuff the thing jam-packed full of clothes. The fuller it is, the better it works. With a top loader the goal is to fill the thing 3/4ths of the way at most, and make sure everything is loosely arranged & fluffy; no compacting. So even though the washing compartment is smaller on a typical front loader than a typical top loader for the same market, the actual capacity per load is a lot more similar than it appears and may even favor the smaller front loader. It takes a certain amount of faith the first few times to cram that thing majorly full-to-bursting then add a tablespoon (not a cup) of liquid detergent, select cold water wash & rinse, then push [start]. But front loaders eat that stuff up. The clothes come out clean, and wrung to darn near dry with near zero wear and tear. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/53 "2015-08-25T15:43:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I think it’s because it’s more difficult to get something to spin perfectly balanced, upright, like on a wall, than sitting flat on the floor. Doubly so if you’re going to fill it half up with water. (But I’m no engineer, just guessing!) Also, the door need so seal shut. And an additional locking mechanism to prevent it from being opened during operation. A top loader is just a lid. The one I have dose not use belts. It’s more of a direct drive. I’m sure it has a drive shaft and gear box of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/54 "2015-08-25T15:46:08Z")
I’m no expert on ‘clean’. But I also think that a front loader tumbles the clothes better because gravity will cause it to tumble more. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/55 "2015-08-25T16:54:33Z")
Just to clear things up a bit, front loaders are usually higher capacity than top loaders, at least in N.America. My Whirlpool front loader is 4.1 ft3, and eats a king size duvet or a dozen pairs of jeans no problem at all. As noted above there are actually only a few mfrs of laundry appliances: Whirlpool: some Kenmores, Maytag, Kitchen Aid, Admiral, Amana, Creda, Magic Chef, Roper. Electrolux: AEG, Eureka, Frigidaire, Kelvinator, and Zanussi. GE: Hotpoint (NA), Miele, Bosch, LG, Haiar, Asko and lots of others in Europe and Asia. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/56 "2015-08-25T17:04:45Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Also, the door need so seal shut. And an additional locking mechanism to prevent it from being opened during operation. A top loader is just a lid. … Many (all?) new top loaders in the US have locks now too. Not as mechanically robust as that on a front loader, but there’s still the same solenoid mechanism and control logic to keep the clueless from sticking their arms into the moving machinery. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/57 "2015-08-25T17:47:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > One difference that takes getting used to is that with a front loader, **the goal is to stuff the thing jam-packed full of clothes. The fuller it is, the better it works.** With a top loader the goal is to fill the thing 3/4ths of the way at most, and make sure everything is loosely arranged & fluffy; no compacting. This seems to be standard advice with front-loaders; I’ve seen it posted at laundromats commonly. Why is this so? ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/58 "2015-08-25T21:22:44Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Is there any way to objectively figure out which washer to buy, taking this repair cost into account, versus the savings in water and clothing wear? It doesn’t do any good to read anecdotal reports of failure when I don’t know the percentage of people that have these failures. You’re overthinking this. You’ve done excellent due diligence. Buy what you have discovered is a reliable, economical, effective product. There are too many variables to undertake a useful study for a product that changes practically annually. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/59 "2015-08-27T14:06:21Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Is there any way to objectively figure out which washer to buy, taking this repair cost into account, versus the savings in water and clothing wear? Is there some equivalent in the US of our “Which?” reports, that do technical evaluations and tests on all sorts of different products and advise people on the various issues involved? [http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/washing-machines/article/washing-machine-buying-guide](http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/washing-machines/article/washing-machine-buying-guide) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589/60 "2015-08-27T14:09:11Z")
Consumer Reports, as mentioned in the OP, does technical evaluations and tries to perform objective comparisons of various products. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/front-loader-washers-worth-it/728589.md?page=2)