# "Frontline"—We've Elected Ned Flanders! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840 "2004-04-30T13:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/21 "2004-04-30T16:47:43Z")
Bush has very definite ideas on what is permissible and what isn’t. He also has no concept of empathy. He absolutely cannot put himself in another person’s shoes. He operates on a very narrow platform of _“Whatever seems like something “I’d” like to do is what I’ll do.”_ I watched the 60 Minutes program with Bob Woodward a couple weeks ago. He said that Bush was smirking and mocking “intellectuals”. This is something high school jocks do to the braniacs. He believes that good ol’ boy, front-porch politickin’ is the answer to the world’s problems. We have lots of reasons to be afraid. In fact, the only GOOD thing I see in our future at the moment is the chance to vote him out of office in a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/22 "2004-04-30T16:53:23Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > In fact, the only GOOD thing I see in our future at the moment is the chance to vote him out of office in a few months. Except, as the program made clear, Evangelical Christians (40% of Americans, cutting across all racial lines) are well-organized, and they _vote_. It’s also rare to have a sitting President voted out in the midst of a war. I hate to think it, but I’m convinced he’ll be reelected. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/23 "2004-04-30T17:06:10Z")
> [@BJMoose](#): > > I’m with those who wonder if Bush is a good fundamentalist. I am, of course, in no position to know, but his religeous practice strikes me as a matter of convenience - goes to church to keep the wife quiet, says the right buzz words when speaking to certain groups, that sort of thing. So I don’t think we have to worry too much about Bush’s religious ideology driving his political ideology. You may have a point there. The problem with Bush may be that he’s not religious enough—i.e. that he doesn’t value/practice Christian virtues like humility, patience, peace, etc. Jimmy Carter’s probably the closest thing we’ve had, at least in recent years, of a President who sincerely tried to live up to Christian beliefs. By the way, is it fair to refer to Bush as a fundamentalist? Has he ever identified himself as such, or assented to the principles of specifcally [_Fundamentalist_ Christianity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity)? Americans on the average tend to be fairly conservative and fairly religious (not that these are necessarily the same thing)—maybe not as much so as Bush, but enough so that they are more comfortable with someone who talks the way GWB talks than with somebody who thinks all religious people are fanatics or who thinks traditional family values are a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/24 "2004-04-30T17:17:19Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Except, as the program made clear, Evangelical Christians (40% of Americans, cutting across all racial lines) are well-organized, and they _vote_. Yeah, but who do they vote for? I don’t think all Evangelicals automatically vote for Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/25 "2004-04-30T17:17:31Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > You conveniently left off the first part of my sentence: “ **I have the horrible feeling** he’d be perfectly content to see the whole world blown up if it results in the Rapture.” As I said, you are _suggesting_ that he’d be perfectly content to see the world destroyed. Whether this is based on a “horrible feeling” or not is irrelevant. Literal or not, it still indicates an extreme and irrational attitude toward the man. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/26 "2004-04-30T17:30:17Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > As I said, you are _suggesting_ that he’d be perfectly content to see the world destroyed. Whether this is based on a “horrible feeling” or not is irrelevant. Literal or not, it still indicates an extreme and irrational attitude toward the man. (sigh) For what it’s worth, I understood what Eve was saying. It’s the “creep factor”. That uneasy feeling you get from some people. Like the way the barker leers at you when you walk past the peep show in the worst neighborhood in town. Ya know…_that_ kind of horrible feeling. Not a premonition…just a wrong feeling. Not at all irrational in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/27 "2004-04-30T17:34:12Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Except, as the program made clear, Evangelical Christians (40% of Americans, cutting across all racial lines) are well-organized, and they _vote_. It’s also rare to have a sitting President voted out in the midst of a war. I hate to think it, but I’m convinced he’ll be reelected. I’m not getting a strong vibe either way right now, but I’m hoping we don’t run into another “deer in the headlights” situation, such as 9/11. People were so glad someone was doing _something_ that they failed to notice Bush’s and Ashcroft’s hands dipping into the back pocket of the constitution. A big catastrophic event will seal it for him. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/28 "2004-04-30T17:35:48Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > By the way, is it fair to refer to Bush as a fundamentalist? Has he ever identified himself as such, or assented to the principles of specifcally [_Fundamentalist_ Christianity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity)? Good question. Though he sometimes quacks like a duck, so to speak, it’s not clear that he really is one. It does seem a number of folks in the fundamentalist community think he’s one of their own. By the way, neat username, Thud; sounds like something Berkeley Breathed would have come up with. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/29 "2004-04-30T17:43:43Z")
> [@BJMoose](#): > > Good question. Though he sometimes quacks like a duck, so to speak, it’s not clear that he really is one. It does seem a number of folks in the fundamentalist community think he’s one of their own. Up to a point. The fundies certainly prefer Bush to Kerry, but they aren’t happy that Bush has been respectful to Islam, instead of declaring it to be a satanic cult. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/30 "2004-04-30T17:47:30Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > By the way, is it fair to refer to Bush as a fundamentalist? Has he ever identified himself as such, or assented to the principles of specifcally [_Fundamentalist_ Christianity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity)? The program last night made quite clear—through Bush’s friends and church members—that he’s an Evangelical who believes that the New Testament is the Word of God and inerrant\*. Would that qualify him as “Fundamentalist?” - Though I notice he shaves, and I’ll bet he wears mixed fibers, too, making him a “Cafeteria Evangelical.” ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/31 "2004-04-30T17:52:07Z")
I dunno. He’s a methodist. Everyone knows that only Greater Association of Regular Baptist Churches members are true fundamentalists. Everyone is going to hell. At least that’s what I was told til I got out of my parents house. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/32 "2004-04-30T17:52:30Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > (sigh) For what it’s worth, I understood what Eve was saying. It’s the “creep factor”. That uneasy feeling you get from some people. Like the way the barker leers at you when you walk past the peep show in the worst neighborhood in town. Ya know…_that_ kind of horrible feeling. Not a premonition…just a wrong feeling. Not at all irrational in my book. Okay, so he creeps you out. You’re entitled to feel that way – but such feelings have no merit as evidence, and have zero value in a great debate. Ditto for suggestions that Bush would eagerly welcome the destruction of the world, if it would lead to the Rapture. If this suggestion is meant literally, then it’s grossly irresponsible. If not – if it is just wild hyperbole – then it has no please in a rational debate, especially when directly mixed with other strongly phrased criticisms of the commander-in-chief. And if it is based on an “uneasy feeling” – a “creep factor” – then this grave accusation is based on a flimsy foundation at best. While we’re at it, it is disingenuoys to describe Bush as “a self-professed religious fanatic.” You may _personally_ consider him to be a fanatic, but that’s merely your judgment, and an entirely different matter. (Now, I know full well that some would say, “Well, that wasn’t meant literally!” but come on. I don’t expect absolute literality from everyone, but I do think we should expect accuracy rather than needlessly inflammatory language.) ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/33 "2004-04-30T17:53:34Z")
I meant everyone ELSE is going to hell :smack: ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/34 "2004-04-30T17:56:42Z")
Oh, and **Kahlhoun** , let me clarify that last statement… I’m not saying that _you specifically_ called Bush a “self-professed religous fanatic.” I was referring to the OP, naturally. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/35 "2004-04-30T18:06:17Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Okay, so he creeps you out. You’re entitled to feel that way – but such feelings have no merit as evidence, and have zero value in a great debate. > > and > > And if it is based on an “uneasy feeling” – a “creep factor” – then this grave accusation is based on a flimsy foundation at best. Well, the creep factor is based on things he’s actually done. Telling the world he confers with his Father-with-a-capital-“F” rather than his Earthly father on matters of state, for starters. Yes, people turn to religion for guidance all kinds of things. I just think that sharing that information with the nation is creepy, considering we don’t all believe he’s actually TALKING to anyone. I’m creeped out that he appointed Ashcroft into such a powerful position. I’m doubly creeped out that he has so little respect for education and intelligence (but big respect for “Test Scores”). All these things add up. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/36 "2004-04-30T18:52:50Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > While we’re at it, it is disingenuoys to describe Bush as “a self-professed religious fanatic.” . . . Now, I know full well that some would say, “Well, that wasn’t meant literally!” No, that _was_ meant literally, based on Bush’s own statements and actions. Of course, your definition of “religious fanatic” and mine may very well be at odds. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/37 "2004-04-30T20:23:18Z")
A fundamentalist…hmmm…I don’t know. Are fundamentalists allowed to call people “assholes?” I don’t believe the man has any convictions on anything at all. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/38 "2004-04-30T20:37:56Z")
> [@](#): > > But on the other hand, if the majority of voting Americans want a fundamentalist religious fanatic in office—then, according to the laws of our land, shouldn’t we have one? Sure. I don’t see a problem with this as long as his fanaticism doesn’t impact his ability to think logically and act professionally. That means not evoking the name of the Almighty whenever someone questions his decision-making strategies. To me, that would be inappropriate behavior for even a manager at Burger King to do. The fact that the POTUS keeps doing it tells me he does not know how to separate his religious convictions from his role as a chief executive _of an entire country_. I’m sure plenty of devout people are able to do their jobs on a daily basis without feeling that it is necessary to advertise their devoutness all the time. But for some reason, not Bush. Al Sharpton could probably do a better job of acting like a president without a religious agenda. And he’s a freakin’ reverend. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/39 "2004-04-30T20:38:16Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > Don’t blame me, **I** voted for Kodos! Oooo, sounds like _somebody_ needs some re **Ned** ucation! ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840/40 "2004-04-30T20:50:51Z")
I’m not American, but I think The Onion said it best in their “what do you think?” section a while ago: “People say you get the government you deserve, but I don’t remember knife raping a nun” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frontline-weve-elected-ned-flanders/242840.md?page=3)