# Frumpy girlfriend **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057 "2011-07-23T02:37:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/181 "2011-07-29T04:11:45Z")
> [@papergirl](#): > > I wonder, though…what if the OP had complained that his girlfriend always dresses up, even around the house? She always insists on wearing makeup, perfume, high heels. She shows too much cleavage and is maybe a mite too sexy when she goes to the store or out with friends. She’s just overall too good looking and attractive, and he doesn’t like it. He makes an effort to look like a committed man, and she, meanwhile, looks like she’s available. > I think he’d still get plenty of advice, but I wonder how much of it would be directed at getting HER to change her behavior…I think there’d be a decided leaning toward her right to dress as she pleases, etc. Very well said and I suspect you’re right ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/182 "2011-07-29T06:22:55Z")
This one is an easy one for me: Wanna fuck\*? Shower & brush your teeth at least once a day and generally look like you don’t live out of a dumpster. Can’t meet my lofty standards? Go fuck yourself with your cum-crusted dildo – and the flies feeding off of it. \*there are some that still call it “making love.” Call _me_ a cynic. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/183 "2011-07-29T18:31:34Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Basic things like showering, brushing your teeth, and wearing clean clothing (whatever it may be)? To me, I would wonder why someone wouldn’t do those things-- and it sounds like the OP’s girlfriend isn’t. But what makes you say that the OP’s girlfriend isn’t doing those things? His OP is about her frizzy hair and broken-out skin and baggy t-shirts that don’t show off the goods–as I said before, are those honestly the things you’d choose to bitch about if your SO wasn’t showering or brushing his teeth? For me, and I like to think for most people with taste buds and olfactory nerves, I’d be complaining about his scuzzy teeth and stanky body. And he says she sits around in her work uniform in the evening. She works in a grocery store, how nasty can her work clothes and body possibly be without her getting into trouble? I mean, yeah, he said that people would be upset if their SO didn’t do these things…but only after people called his complaint shallow and silly. And he said _if._ Nowhere did he ever say that she, personally, herself was unwashed or untrimmed. As for the whole girly-girl/frump war, I think a whole lot gets said on either side that doesn’t really need to be said. There could be a lot less sniffing and eye-rolling and snotty little comments all around, to be totally honest. Just because something is honestly what you think, or even the objective truth, that doesn’t necessarily make it an appropriate or constructive addition to the conversation. For instance, we get a lot of threads here about issues with SO’s who seem to be people I wouldn’t wipe my goddamn feet on for fear of what I’d catch, much less date or fuck 'em. I don’t go into those threads and point out that I never had that problem because _I_ have _standards_ about people I get involved with and I can’t imagine what’s wrong with people who don’t have the same standards. Because however true that might be, it would be a total dick thing to say under the circumstances. And that’s how I feel about people who post about how _they_ have _pride_ in themselves and thus dress nicely, or about how _they_ have actual _important_ things to worry about and thus can’t be bothered with that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/184 "2011-07-29T18:32:45Z")
I would just to point out that the OP NEVER said that his frumpy girlfriend lacked basic hygiene. he said 1. She has small boobs 2. She wears old baggy shirts after getting home from work 3. Something is up with her acne, it’s worse lately 4. Her hair is frizzy 5. All of the above make her resemble an awkward middle schooler which repells him to the extent that he pushed her away when she tried to kiss him. I’m not sure how the “she doesn’t brush her teeth or wash herself” hypothetical arose (I think it was someone challenging the concept that the OP has _no_ valid input on his girlfriend’s looks) but that is not the situation the OP is actually dealing with. In sum, the OP just thinks she’s ugly. That’s pretty much it. Nobody needs that. Not him, not her. It would be a kindness to both of them if they parted ways. ETA: **CCL** simulpost ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/185 "2011-07-29T18:59:42Z")
> [@papergirl](#): > > I’ve been following this thread without having anything much to contribute beyond thinking to myself, “Why on earth would my SO presume to tell me how to dress/look/etc?” Outside of your boss instructing you on proper work attire, your SO is the only other person with any standing to have interest in how you dress/look. If you like your SO, and you want your SO to like you, wouldn’t you make some effort to dress/look in a fashion that pleases them? If you’re not willing to change your “natural” behavior the slightest bit to please your SO, what are you putting into the relationship? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/186 "2011-07-29T19:02:46Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > If you’re not willing to change your “natural” behavior the slightest bit to please your SO, what are you putting into the relationship? You’re putting _your natural self_ into the relationship, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/187 "2011-07-29T20:32:32Z")
All of this hand-wringing and arguing and word twisting is really unnecessary, IMHO. It comes down to the fact that the OP is not attracted to his girlfriend anymore and (also IMHO) this means they’d both be better off if they broke up. She’d find someone who _is_ attracted to her and he’d find someone he’s attracted to. Win/win. Regardless of how superficial the armchair psychologists on the Dope might think him to be, he’s just not attracted to her and stringing this along or staying with her is crueler than leaving her. Generally people who are in a relationship need to be attracted to one another. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/188 "2011-07-29T20:36:37Z")
:rolleyes: > [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > All of this hand-wringing and arguing and word twisting is really unnecessary, IMHO. It comes down to the fact that the OP is not attracted to his girlfriend anymore and (also IMHO) this means they’d both be better off if they broke up. > > She’d find someone who _is_ attracted to her and he’d find someone he’s attracted to. Win/win. Regardless of how superficial the armchair psychologists on the Dope might think him to be, he’s just not attracted to her and stringing this along or staying with her is crueler than leaving her. > > Generally people who are in a relationship need to be attracted to one another. I didn’t really see anything cruel about this thread. The OP isn’t attracted to her. Debating whether or not it is cruel to dump someone a person is no longer attracted to is rediculous and a waste of time. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/189 "2011-07-29T20:46:01Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Outside of your boss instructing you on proper work attire, your SO is the only other person with any standing to have interest in how you dress/look. If you like your SO, and you want your SO to like you, wouldn’t you make some effort to dress/look in a fashion that pleases them? > > If you’re not willing to change your “natural” behavior the slightest bit to please your SO, what are you putting into the relationship? “The slightest bit” is one of those ultimate terms. Of course I’m willing to change things the slightest bit…like most people in a committed relationship, I (and he) do make willing changes to enhance it. He doesn’t smoke around me; I try to put shit away when I’m done. If I know he really likes the way I look in something, I’m more likely to wear it. But he isn’t allowed to dictate what I wear, any more than I’m allowed to tell him what to put on. Maybe I grew up around too many women who wouldn’t cut their hair because “my husband won’t let me” or weren’t “allowed” to wear makeup. I think **hello again** is correct: Boyfriend just doesn’t like Girlfriend looking like a housewife/middle schooler/whatever. He’s not attracted to her. So she should: defrizz her hair, wear sexier clothes, quit looking like a gawky kid, maybe get bigger tits? Would that please a man who gets a haircut every two weeks (supposedly) just for her? I don’t know, and I’m not convinced that he does either. My guess is, after all the corrective behaviors on her part, oops! Forgot he doesn’t like those earrings she wears! Why no perfume? What, he doesn’t warrant a full-body sex tackle when he comes in? What’s the story with those shoes? I was married to someone who was never, ever, ever pleased with anything I did, any effort I made, any changes that happened. Nothing was ever enough, and nothing would ever BE enough, because the fundamental problem was one he had with himself, not with me or anyone else. I feel for anyone in a relationship with He Who Will Not Be Pleased. Maybe our OP isn’t that guy, but maybe he is. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/190 "2011-07-29T20:46:19Z")
> [@OneMissedPost](#): > > :rolleyes: > > I didn’t really see anything cruel about this thread. The OP isn’t attracted to her. Debating whether or not it is cruel to dump someone a person is no longer attracted to is rediculous and a waste of time. :rolleyes: The double eyeroll smiley is a nice touch ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/191 "2011-07-29T20:53:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You’re putting _your natural self_ into the relationship, of course. Wait, whose side are you on? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/192 "2011-07-29T20:58:27Z")
In this thread? I’m not on anyone’s side, really. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/193 "2011-07-29T23:02:16Z")
> [@ImNotPaulAvery](#): > > There’s a line there somewhere. If your SO never clipped their toenails or brushed their teeth you’d be pissed right? I don’t know if he’s just using general example or not, but the OP certainly implied it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/194 "2011-07-30T09:01:50Z")
> [@papergirl](#): > > If I know he really likes the way I look in something, I’m more likely to wear it. But he isn’t allowed to dictate what I wear, any more than I’m allowed to tell him what to put on. Maybe I grew up around too many women who wouldn’t cut their hair because “my husband won’t let me” or weren’t “allowed” to wear makeup. There’s a difference between preferring and dictating. I feel like the OP is still (at least publicly) on preference side, and a lot of these posts seem to suggest that he shouldn’t even have a preference, he should just accept whatever choices she makes, like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/195 "2011-07-30T12:12:20Z")
As for what she should do or what he should tell her, it really just depends. In my early twenties, I had a ragged homemade haircut that I always kept poorly bleached or dyed some electric color. I wore random stuff, half of which I “made” myself by taking scissors to clothes found at the thrift store. I had a duct tape purse and smeary dollar store eyeliner. I accsorized from the halloween store and the kids section at Target. I swore I’d never wear heels, watch my figure, pay for a haircut or wear anything in a “neautral” shade. Quite frankly, I looked a mess. But I looked like a skinny, young, exhuberent mess. Being 21 is enough to have men buying you drinks at the bar. And at 21, you are not really too worried about the long term quality of guys you are attracting. Time passed, and in my mid-twenties I started to notice that I was getting passed up. Guys were going for girls who I’d dismissed as boring clones. Even the rock stars and artists were settling down with women who looked like the belonged in Cosmo, not Maximum Rock and Roll. I started hearing that I was not on any of my group’s “fuckable” lists. I wasn’t getting the boyfriends or even the hookups. I was lost. What the hell ws going on? I knew I hadn’t suddenly gone ugly. I was still smart and likeable. What did every other girl have that I didn’t? A bad break up hit me with the clue bus. I realized…guys like girls who present themselves well. Professional haircuts look _nice_. Clothes that fit and look like they come from a store look _nice_. Heels make push out your boobs and your butt, and make men think about sex. Healthy hair sends out signals of youth and fertility. I had been projecting an actively unsexy signal. I had been visually telling guys to stay away. I had been sliding by on raw youth, which is a plan that can only go so far. So I got some grown-up sexy pencil skirts, grew out my hair, learned to walk in heels, spent a hundred bucks at Sephora and trained for a 5k. I never had trouble attracting guys again, and I’m having fun with the wider variety of guys I’m meeting. I’m more confident, professional and have a wider circle of situations that I fit in to. And, it turns out that me with a nicer haircut is still me. Anyway, it was a painful proccess to learn this, as people who know me can attest to. It is always scary to embrace change, especially when that change stems from having deeply held beliefs have negative consequences. Anyway, sometimes people really do need a reality check. It can be hard to know how you look to others. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/196 "2011-07-30T15:32:26Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > So I got some grown-up sexy pencil skirts, grew out my hair, learned to walk in heels, spent a hundred bucks at Sephora and trained for a 5k. I never had trouble attracting guys again… So much work for so little reward.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/197 "2011-07-30T19:23:56Z")
Gosh, I never had to do any of that hard work, still got more male attention than I wanted, and wound up with a decent husband. Go figger. Well, hey, it worked for you, so good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/198 "2011-07-30T19:28:06Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > I realize there are a lot of people who don’t give crap #1 about that kind of stuff and that’s awesome for them, but it bugs me that the Dope tradition has to be to look down at girlie-type activities with a superior sneer. Meh. That’s a bit unfair. There are literally a zillion MPSIMS threads about finding cute dresses and shoes and pedicures and whatever, and while I’ll admit I tend not to drop into them, I don’t remember many threadshitting posts in them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/199 "2011-07-30T19:47:21Z")
Actually, a duct tape purse would be a fun design challenge! ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/200 "2011-07-30T20:08:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Meh. That’s a bit unfair. There are literally a zillion MPSIMS threads about finding cute dresses and shoes and pedicures and whatever, and while I’ll admit I tend not to drop into them, I don’t remember many threadshitting posts in them. Unless you’re quoting me to agree with me you can just pipe down, Mister Man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057.md?page=11)