# Frumpy girlfriend **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057 "2011-07-23T02:37:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/101 "2011-07-25T05:32:20Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well… you could do what we do at my household, especially during this heatwaves… > > Wash face, groom hair, and just dispense entirely with the clothes. Ah, nudity! Hope you wash more than your face, or change your seat covers really frequently. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/102 "2011-07-25T10:44:50Z")
> [@ImNotPaulAvery](#): > > There’s a line there somewhere. If your SO never clipped their toenails or brushed their teeth you’d be pissed right? Somebody who doesn’t take care of themselves, I would not be pissed, I would be worried and talk to her like a friend, because that either points to depression or self-esteem issues. Somebody who doesn’t want to dress as I want them to - completely different issue. > [@](#): > > This isn’t about objectifying women, because I’m not like that. This is about what she is doing for me vs what I’m doing for her. Unless YOU are drop-dead gorgeous, what are you doing for her? > [@](#): > > I just want her to try to bring some sex appeal to our relationship. Wear a nice shirt. Fix her hair. Not every day, but every now and then would be nice. Guys like girly girls, you know? I’ve tried to make it clear but she doesnt seem to get it. Because there is nothing to “get”; you’re wrong. SOME guys like girly girls; but not all. Some are able to accept their SO as they are, instead of trying to change them. If you want a girl who dresses up to your taste, that’s called a hooker. If you want a girl-friend and maybe more, you accept her as she is, or break off the relationship right now and look for a girly girl. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/103 "2011-07-25T10:49:09Z")
I like a girl who brushes her teeth and clips her toenails. Is that called a hooker in your book? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/104 "2011-07-25T11:08:11Z")
If you don’t like what she wears, then undress her. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/105 "2011-07-25T11:27:39Z")
There are lots of ways to go with this, but the upshot is that you have someone who is not that interested in (1) going out and (2) getting dressed up to go out and (3) is not particularly invested in her personal appearance. This an adult who has made that determination about what they are most happy doing and not doing. You had best understand these are innate preferences and there is almost nothing you can do that will change them. She’s not an idiot, she knows perfectly well you’d prefer her to dress up, it’s simply not a priority with her, and that attitude is very unlikely to ever change. It’s hard to walk away from a woman you are emotionally and intellectually comfortable with, but being lazy about your personal appearance is a deal breaker for both men, and women. You really need to leave this relationship, and it’s not because you are a heartless monster or she is a slattern, it’s because this is exactly the sort of thing that will grow and fester over time and will eventually contribute to a level of contempt for the other person (and you’re kind of there already) that makes a relationship toxic. You do not want that happening when kids are involved. You need to make a clean break of it for both your sakes. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/106 "2011-07-25T11:35:24Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I like a girl who brushes her teeth and clips her toenails. Is that called a hooker in your book? Did you miss the part where I said > [@myself](#): > > Somebody who doesn’t take care of themselves, I would not be pissed, I would be worried and talk to her like a friend, because that either points to depression or self-esteem issues. > > Somebody who doesn’t want to dress as I want them to - completely different issue. Or did you misunderstand what I meant? Taking care of your yourself, hygiene etc. = good and normal; if lacking or suddenly changing, sign for worry and offer of help Dressing according to your own taste = good Dressing up to meet the expectations of somebody else = not good. Clear now? ---
**Author:** ![Waxwinged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@Waxwinged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waxwinged)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/107 "2011-07-25T11:50:41Z")
I’m kind of on the fence with the OP. On one side, I can sympathize with the girlfriend- I used to be like that (had good hygiene, but thought ratty T-shirts acceptable in all situations/scorned jewelry and make-up). I eventually grew out of it (mid-college), and started paying more attention to clothing, though jewelry/make-up are still off the table. My then-boyfriend-now-husband was in a large part responsible for this change. He never made ultimatums, but offered plentiful compliments when I dressed nicely, and that worked in the long run. On another hand, I do sympathize with OP- it’s hard to cuddle a person whom you find unappealing. As others have mentioned, she seems like more of a friend material. Don’t know if expecting her to improve with age is reasonable in your situation, or if her other qualities making sticking around worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/108 "2011-07-25T12:05:31Z")
As time goes by your resentment will get stronger. You two are obviously not on the same wavelength, she obviously doesn’t understand your character, and you are unable to communicate effectively with her. Bite the bullet and end it, when she asks why be honest, but also be gentle about it. If you don’t tell her she may go on messing up relationships for the rest of her life. Of course she may do that anyway, but at least she’ll know the reason why. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/109 "2011-07-25T13:11:42Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Did you miss the part where I said > > Or did you misunderstand what I meant? > > Taking care of your yourself, hygiene etc. = good and normal; if lacking or suddenly changing, sign for worry and offer of help > > Dressing according to your own taste = good > > Dressing up to meet the expectations of somebody else = not good. > > Clear now? Gosh, I guess you’re right. The OP’s girlfriend is clearly a needy waif in need of rescuing. BTW, my wife buys me polo shirts by the ton because she says I look good in them. I’ve always been “meh” on that, but I wear them occasionally because I know she likes how I look in them. Does that make me a man-whore? (Also: once in a great while, I confess, I might go for days without taking a shower and a week or more without cutting my toenails. ☹ And sometimes I wear dirty underwear. :(:(☹ My wife says I’m just reverting to my bachelor days of being a dirty slob, and makes me sleep on the couch unless I get cleaned up. But now that you mention it, I think I’m just sad. Could you . . . could you give me a hug?) ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/110 "2011-07-25T13:28:53Z")
When I posted that you two should break up, the only thing in your OP that mattered to me was this: > [@](#): > > Tonight she leaned to kiss me and I kind of pushed her away after a second. I just couldn’t do it. “You don’t love me anymore?” she asked. Whether she should or shouldn’t make more of an effort with her appearance is irrelevant. You’re not attracted to her, and you pushed her away when she tried to kiss you, and that hurt her feelings. You’re not happy, she’s not happy, stop trying to “fix” her, just separate and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/111 "2011-07-25T14:16:23Z")
The OP is like warm, soft, fertile compost, and every time I turn around there’s a new dumbass plant growing out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/112 "2011-07-25T14:56:48Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > [Please note attached chart.](http://livingingreece.gr/2007/08/14/eu-vs-usa-labor-issues/) > > An average American works five and a half hours more per week than an average EU member. And our work weeks are getting longer. Vacations? Two weeks if we’re lucky. > > Know what you’re talking about before you start tossing words like idiot around. Averages are meaningless. Averages across the EU even more so. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/113 "2011-07-25T15:19:43Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Averages are meaningless. Averages across the EU even more so. Could you explain why averages are meaningless in this situation? An admittedly brief analysis suggests to me that the average figures support the proposition fairly well. What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/114 "2011-07-25T15:27:41Z")
I’m really late to this thread, but I don’t think the OP sounds terribly shallow. I can see both sides. I’m sure if the OP’s girlfriend is working in a grocery, the last thing she wants to do is put on some makeup and lingerie. But, it’s not as though the OP is asking her to dress up a la Donna Reed when she gets home, complete with high heels, dress, makeup and pearls. Also, it sounds like the girlfriend is bordering on not taking care of basic hygiene, which I imagine is pretty distressing. I can understand not being into someone who doesn’t change their clothes frequently and who gravitates toward the couch. Unfortunately, my husband is a lot like that. The first thing he does when he comes home is whip off the pants and walk around in his old boxer briefs. This doesn’t exactly engender significant physical attraction. But at least he puts his pants on and shaves when I ask. OP, I’m not sure what to tell you. You’ve gotten her gift cards and helped her pick out clothing. What does she do with the clothing? Does it just sit in her closet with the tags still on? And how have you approached this issue with her – if you’re being passive-aggressive about it, it’s not going to work. If you sit down with her and tell her (gently) how beautiful she looks when she wears the clothes she’s picked out, that might help. Sometimes dressing nicely engenders enough self-esteem that you want to continue dressing nicely. For me, sex works the same way. When you’re crazy busy all the time, if you don’t make time for it, it can stop happening and you get into the habit of not doing it. If you make an effort, you wonder why you haven’t been doing it more often and make more time for it. If no matter what you say, she doesn’t clean up and this is really important to you, you should break up with her before either of you gets hurt. Just my two cents. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/115 "2011-07-25T15:31:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Could you explain why averages are meaningless in this situation? An admittedly brief analysis suggests to me that the average figures support the proposition fairly well. What am I missing? Because the claim is that **bucketybuck** has more time on his/her hands because he/she doesn’t work “an American schedule”. Since **bucketybuck** ’s work schedule and commute may bear no resemblance to the local average, average figures are meaningless. The quoted figures are _especially_ meaningless because **bucketybuck** is an Australian. And hence not in Europe. That’s not even taking into account the implied claim that an American work schedule makes it hard or impossible to… > [@](#): > > …throw on jeans and a t-shirt, wash your face and show a little vitality… …which is, you know, kinda spurious. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/116 "2011-07-25T15:32:02Z")
You don’t do yourself or her any favors by wasting time with someone that you don’t feel an attraction to. It is likely to get worse, not better, and you should free her to find someone who will be physically attracted to what she is, not what they want her to be. That is the KIND and NON-SHALLOW thing to do. And yes, its possible that it will be hard for her to find such a person. That is her choice. She may need to make an effort. She may be willing to do it for someone who is not you. And that may hurt you. But right now, she isn’t willing to make that effort for you, and you aren’t willing to overlook the lack of effort. Deal breaker. It is a shame that breaking up is likely to ruin a friendship that you have an emotional and spiritual connection with, but thems the risks in romance. Maybe it won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/117 "2011-07-25T15:34:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Could you explain why averages are meaningless in this situation? An admittedly brief analysis suggests to me that the average figures support the proposition fairly well. What am I missing? I hesitate to answer, but an average across the EU is pretty meaningless because different component countries (with vastly different populations) have different cultures. To some extent at least (in my limited knowledge and experience) this is replicated in the US by state, rather than country. Therefore, whilst not entirely meaningless, such comparisons are certainly not wholly reliable. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/118 "2011-07-25T15:39:31Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > [Please note attached chart.](http://livingingreece.gr/2007/08/14/eu-vs-usa-labor-issues/) Note, however, that the above link _does_ have a country by country breakdown: United States – 46.0 Austria — 42.4 UK — 42.4 Latvia — 42.2 Estonia — 41.0 Switzerland — 41.0 Spain — 40.9 Greece – 40.7 EU average — 40.5 Germany — 40.3 Portugal — 40.1 Luxembourg — 40.0 Cyprus — 39.9 Sweden — 39.9 Denmark — 39.4 Italy — 39.3 Finland — 39.2 France — 39.1 Belgium — 39.0 Netherlands — 38.9 Norway — 38.6 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/119 "2011-07-25T15:54:30Z")
Yeah, but the US figure is from the Department of Labor while the Euro statistics are from the EU. Who knows if the methodology is even comparable? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057/120 "2011-07-25T18:45:04Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > [Please note attached chart.](http://livingingreece.gr/2007/08/14/eu-vs-usa-labor-issues/) > > An average American works five and a half hours more per week than an average EU member. And our work weeks are getting longer. Vacations? Two weeks if we’re lucky. > > Know what you’re talking about before you start tossing words like idiot around. But you seem so much like an idiot, what other word should I use? Others have already mentioned it, so I wont bother going into detail as to how moronic it is to think a stat about average working hours means anything across a continent as diverse as Europe. You have no idea about my working practices, yet you are too dumb even to recognise this fact. The real kicker though, is that it doesnt matter. It doesnt matter how tiring your workday is. As I have already said in this thread, if you look upon having some personal pride as an effort, or as a chore, then you are doing it wrong. If you worked a 72 hour week and landed home dead on your feet then sure, go laze on the sofa for a while. But you just sound like some lazy fat fucker who is happy to have his excuses all ready made. “Its not my fault I binge on McDonalds and plonk my arse on the couch until bedtime, I work and I am tired wah wah wah.” Also, I am Irish, not Australian. I do like Australians though, even if their beer is like pishwater. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/frumpy-girlfriend/590057.md?page=7)