# FSU bans all fraternities/sororities, effective today **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914 "2017-11-06T20:52:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/61 "2017-11-10T06:54:05Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > A leg-up? It’s a lot more than a leg up. Spoons mentioned “the movers and shakers on Bay Street.” That was the reality in my frat. When you were working on frat projects or just hanging out with the same people who were repeatedly on the front page of the Globe’s business section, when you’re staying over at the homes of name partners of the two top corporate/commercial law firms in the nation, **or when you won the watch off of a future prime-minister in a game of craps** , you’d be sharing experiences and building relationships with movers and shakers… Emphasis added by me, and my comment pertains to the bolded, though it may be a slight hijack: Just because I’m curious, **Muffin** , did you or one of your friends win the watch off a future prime minister in a crap game back in the day? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/62 "2017-11-10T12:19:13Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > This touches on the posts above about the value of networking.The frat system is _all_ about socializing. > > Somebody once described the difference between a junior college and a full university (including frats): > At junior college, the student sitting next to you in the classroom may have a father who works in a factory. > At university, that student may have a father who owns a factory. And if that student is a member of a fraternity, he is close friends with a _lot_ of others whose fathers who own their companies. Yes I agree and wealthy students are not interested in cost cutting. A young man who worked for us said in his fraternity most brothers were going for some sort of business degree and the one history major, well his Dad owned a big company. So bottom line if they are not part of a business network that can help out other brothers, they soon will be. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/63 "2017-11-15T21:28:06Z")
Another fraternity [del]ban[/del] suspension, this time [after the death of a Texas State University student](http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-state-university-suspends-greek-activities-death-20/story?id=51150380). ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/64 "2017-11-15T22:35:54Z")
[quote=“Der\_Trihs, post:2, topic:800914”] Just about everything I’ve heard about fraternities and sororities over the years is bad; I’m pretty sympathetic to the idea of banning them. Not enough data in the linked story to say if they were actually at fault, though.{/I] Fraternities, sure. I haven’t really heard of sororities being involved in notoriously bad behavior though. There’s no intrinsic reason to treat them both the same. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And banning alcohol tends to \*encourage \*dangerous patterns of drinking, especially binging. I disagree with the US drinking age, but this isn’t really true: European countries have more “heavy drinking” (i.e. drinking 5 or more drinks in an evening) than we do, and alcohol consumption seems to track the severity of alcohol laws pretty well. When you ban things (guns, drugs, alcohol, sex work, etc.) you tend to get less of them. Now if you mean that Europeans, when they drink, are better behave than we are when it comes to sexual assault, drunk driving, crime, etc., that I’ll certainly believe. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/65 "2017-11-16T20:00:09Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I have heard this benefit of the Greek system, but is this a reality? I am not questioning you, specifically, but has anyone here on the dope who was in a fraternity or sorority used that relationship to either get a job, or hire someone? Or, has anyone here ever heard of such a thing happening IRL? > > I have a hard time accepting that graduates with Greek experience are going to have a leg-up in today’s job market. “Oh, look, a fellow Tri-Lamb, let’s get him in here for an interview.” Dubious. Yes, One that got me away from sales and into technical operations, and another into a pre-bust .COM. Both positions moved my career and prospects forward substantially. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/66 "2017-11-17T19:11:43Z")
Wasn’t FSU where marching band newbies had to go through a gauntlet of musicians to board the band bus? And one newbie died as a result of the injuries received? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/67 "2017-11-17T19:26:19Z")
And now [Ohio State](http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/11/ohio_state_university_fraterni.html) has suspended “social, recruitment and new member” events for all fraternities, effective today. They can only engage in essential activities, which do not include hazing new recruits and pouring alcohol down them until they are comatose or deceased. Seems the administration is overreacting to the 11 frats currently under investigation for various misbehaviors (5 chapters are reportedly previous offenders). All frats are expected to file paperwork explaining how they will reform practices to be good little citizens. Meantime, what will this mean to networking and job opportunities? How will American business survive? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/68 "2017-11-17T20:40:33Z")
It boils down to this: > [@](#): > > You can’t hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/69 "2017-11-17T21:20:09Z")
@ **Jackmannii** :Perhaps by learning to hire on merit rather than friendships? Naah, I didn’t think so either. @ **Ranger Jeff** : You delivered that ridiculous joke so deadpan that I can’t tell whether you’re an excellent comic or actually believe that drivel. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/70 "2017-11-18T16:12:32Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Wasn’t FSU where marching band newbies had to go through a gauntlet of musicians to board the band bus? And one newbie died as a result of the injuries received? That was Florida A & M University, which is a historically black university also located in Tallahassee. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/71 "2017-11-19T00:37:36Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > It boils down to this: I just posted that quote to my fraternity chapter’s Facebook page…since apparently they got kicked off campus last week. > [@HMS Irruncible](#): > > View Post I can see the value that some people have mentioned above… taking the fledgling plebes under the wing and teaching them adult things, forming a social network that persists beyond college… creating social events on a schedule… that stuff is all well and good. But it seems like it almost always devolves into hazing, alcohol abuse, sexual abuse, petty crime, hell, people dying from just falling out of the frat house. I don’t think you’re that far off. At 45, I still share a bond with at least a subset of my fraternity brothers. But we were also part of the recolonizing class of a house that had been kicked off 4 years earlier. And pretty much all my fraternity brothers are successful. Lawyers, doctors, Wall Street guys, management consultants, entrepreneurs venture capitalists, executives in companies. But all of us would have been where we are regardless. But to your point, there does seem this constant pressure that causes fraternities to degenerate from “havens for like-minded ambitious elites to socialize and support each other” to “bunch of drunken jerkoffs”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/72 "2017-12-16T16:15:36Z")
The report isn’t kind either to frats or the administration at Penn State. \*"Hazing is “rampant and pervasive” and includes “sadistic” rituals that “surge to unfathomabl[e] peaks of depravity,” the report says. Penn State fraternities require excessive drinking to the point of being life-threatening or demand that pledges exercise to the point of exhaustion on floors covered in vomit, bleach or broken glass, according to the report. Some hazing rituals allegedly involved pledges being forced to drink concoctions designed to make them ill or required pledges to kill and skin animals. Efforts to deter dangerous activities, through the criminal system or through the school, have “clearly failed,” the report found."\* > **[Grand Jury Report On Penn State Hazing Finds 'Indignities And Depravities'](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/15/571059617/grand-jury-report-on-penn-state-hazing-finds-indignities-and-depravities)** > > The report was triggered by one deadly incident, but members of the grand jury said they felt obligated to report the broader issues they uncovered — including rampant, dangerous misconduct. Well, boys will be boys, and all that. Meantime, Ohio State administrators are giving their “Greek” organizations [quite the nasty slap on the wrist](https://www.thelantern.com/2017/12/ohio-state-releases-action-plan-for-fraternities-with-hopes-of-lifting-suspension-before-recruitment/). To get the systemwide suspension lifted for your particular frat, you must supply a Mission Statement that includes your plan for “anti-hazing education”, and there’s also a limit of 20 alcohol-fueled events, which is confusingly stated as being allowed “between” two different time periods spanning the year. Bottom line, given the length of the school year and including vacation periods: frats/sororities would still be able to host one such event more frequently than once every other weekend (and if I’'m interpreting this incorrectly, at least once per week). Guess it’ll take more embarrassment and big-time lawsuits for universities to shape up. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/73 "2017-12-16T16:24:18Z")
Living near PSU, I’ve seen and heard numerous news reports about this grand jury report. What I don’t understand (having never been in a frat, or knowing much about the Greek system) is what they expected the university to do. At PSU, the frat houses are all located off-campus. They are privately owned and operated. What authority or control is the university expected to wield? How are incidents at the frat houses any different than in off-campus apartments? Perhaps the university should just disassociate itself from fraternities altogether. The frats can become private social clubs and do whatever they want. FWIW, I absolutely think the fraternities use sadistic and dangerous hazing tactics, and that needs to change. I just don’t see that it is the university’s fault. Of course, any lawsuit is going to included the university, because they have deep pockets and are known to pay out. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/74 "2017-12-16T18:00:32Z")
when I pledged a fraternity way back in 1948, about half the pledge class was made up of WWII veterans. I can guarantee you that hazing was pretty mild there. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/75 "2017-12-16T18:14:43Z")
\*"Hazing is “rampant and pervasive” and includes “sadistic” rituals that “surge to unfathomabl[e] peaks of depravity,” the report says. \* :rolleyes: Sounds like a good time! Seriously, I think someone is watching a little too much TV. I guess I was in the only fraternity in the country that didn’t haze. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914/76 "2017-12-16T18:29:48Z")
A few months ago, the CBC had an interesting documentary about fraternities and sororities: [Frat Boys](http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/900553795858). If fraternities and sororities were at Waterloo when I was there, they certainly weren’t very prominent. I don’t remember hearing of them. First-year students were required to live on campus. Only in second year did we live off-campus; I rented an apartment with friends in a building near campus universally known as “Cockroach Towers”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fsu-bans-all-fraternities-sororities-effective-today/800914.md?page=3)