# Ft. Hood shootings a "terrorist attack"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215 "2009-11-19T23:01:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/1 "2009-11-19T23:01:52Z")
Now that the hearings have started the usual suspects are ramping up the rhetoric. [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/us/politics/20hood.html?exprod=myyahoo](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/us/politics/20hood.html?exprod=myyahoo) The scare labels are being thrown out there and roll off the tongue very easily. The Ft. Hood shootings were tragic. Without more evidence of a planned conspiracy I have a hard time with the label “terrorist attack”. If that evidence isn’t forthcoming then the killing of the abortion doctor was a terrorist attack. Oklahoma city was a terrorist attack but that label wasn’t readily used to describe the tragedy. Just because some nutjob with a religious agenda snaps I’m not ready to label it a terrorist attack. I suppose if somehow Ft. Hood can be labeled a terrorist attack the anti-Obamas can accuse him of being negligent and can claim an attack occurred on his watch. That’s very convenient for their agenda. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/2 "2009-11-19T23:30:55Z")
Why would the Oklahoma bombing be a terrorist attack but this not be? Just curious as to the logic behind this statement. > [@](#): > > I suppose if somehow Ft. Hood can be labeled a terrorist attack the anti-Obamas can accuse him of being negligent and can claim an attack occurred on his watch. That’s very convenient for their agenda. I don’t see how labeling this thing a terrorist attack or whatever effects Obama at all, to be honest. It was clearly the work of a lone nut ball, so there really was nothing Obama et al could have done about it, regardless of how you label it. -XT ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/3 "2009-11-19T23:44:00Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Why would the Oklahoma bombing be a terrorist attack but this not be? Just curious as to the logic behind this statement. > > I don’t see how labeling this thing a terrorist attack or whatever effects Obama at all, to be honest. It was clearly the work of a lone nut ball, so there really was nothing Obama et al could have done about it, regardless of how you label it. > > -XT I think the Army had enough info to do something; still don’t see how this lands on Pres. O’s doorstep, though. Face it; the U.S.A., in all it’s myriad Departments, Agencies, Bureaus, etc., is simply too massive for any President to be directly responsible for every single individual in them. A President can set very broad policies (and catch hell/obstinate passive resistance from carreerist bureaucrats for it), and sign Executive Orders, but laying personal responsibility on a sitting President for the act of a lone individual is a little too much of playing “Gotcha!” The blame for the Ft. Hood shooters starts waaaaay below the POTUS’s paygrade. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/4 "2009-11-19T23:54:19Z")
Agreed on all counts. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/5 "2009-11-20T01:06:04Z")
Depends. If Hasan’s correspondence with an Al Queda recruiter are part of the same group that was caught plotting to shoot up military bases then there is a conspiracy link. The revelation that Hasan saw his earning power as his greatest asset suggests that he was funneling money to the cause. It also explains his austere apartment. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/6 "2009-11-20T01:19:59Z")
Hasan was troubled and crazy. I doubt any group would have enlisted him. He was in trouble with the army and they transferred him to Ft. Hood because it was the biggest mental health facility in the army and they were short handed.He was in danger of being ousted by the army . Some brass just wanted him gone. This was his last chance. That is according to his army bosses interviewed on TV today. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/7 "2009-11-20T01:24:23Z")
Timothy McVeigh was troubled and crazy too, and yet I don’t think many people see what he did as anything but a terrorist attack. Certainly Hasan had issues…I’d have to say that ObL is troubled and crazy as well. MOST terrorists have issues…I mean, it’s not really normal behavior to strap explosives to one’s self and take a stroll through a mall, ehe? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/8 "2009-11-20T01:29:13Z")
What’s the evidence that Hasan was “crazy” or a “nutjob”? It looks like he knew perfectly well what he was doing and why he was doing it, and had at least tacit encouragement (and possibly quite a bit more) from a recognized community of like-minded people. Looks to me like he was perfectly rational. > [@gonzomax](#): > > I doubt any group would have enlisted him. Why not? Seems to me that from the enemy’s perspective he would be a perfect _jewel_ of a recruit. Terrorist groups don’t discourage people with troubled lives, they encourage and exploit them. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/9 "2009-11-20T01:32:17Z")
duplicate post ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/10 "2009-11-20T02:09:53Z")
From ABC news: [Major Hasan’s E-Mail: ‘I Can’t Wait to Join You’ in Afterlife](http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/major-hasans-mail-wait-join-afterlife/story?id=9130339): > [@](#): > > United States Army Major Nidal Hasan told a radical cleric considered by authorities to be an al-Qaeda recruiter, “I can’t wait to join you” in the afterlife, . . . “It sounds like code words,” said Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer, a military analyst at the Center for Advanced Defense Studies. “That he’s actually either offering himself up or that he’s already crossed that line in his own mind.” > > Other messages include questions, the official with access to the e-mails said, that include when is jihad appropriate, and whether it is permissible if there are innocents killed in a suicide attack. > > . . . > > Federal investigators have found that Hasan donated $20,000 to $30,000 a year to overseas Islamic "charities. > > . . . > > The American-born Awlaki is considered a recruiter for al-Qaeda. > > . . . . > > In [an] interview with the Washington Post, Awlaki described himself as Hasan’s “confidant.” > > In addition to his contacts with Hasan, Awlaki served as an inspiration for men convicted in terror plots in Toronto and Fort Dix, New Jersey, according to government officials and court records reviewed by [ABCNews.com](http://ABCNews.com). Come on, if this isn’t terrorism, and specifically terrorism inspired (if not directed) by the enemy we’re fighting, then what is? ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/11 "2009-11-20T02:50:23Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Why would the Oklahoma bombing be a terrorist attack but this not be? Just curious as to the logic behind this statement. > -XT Because in the OkC bombing there was more than one person, they went around buying and devising a huge explosive device with a planned, timed intent. In Ft. Hood, this guy had religious convictions, found out the HE was being deployed to the war zone and went off with hand held arms. There is a huge difference. Before it is labeled a “terrorist attack” I want to see some evidence that this was a planned attack with planning that involved other people. If his attack coordinated with another similarly violent act I then I’m all for the terrorist label. I well remember 9/11. We were all looking for an “accident” until the second plane hit. Then we all knew that it involved a conspiracy and was an attack. Again, the guy that murdered the abortion doctor planned his attack, had contact with others that supported his views, was motivated for religious reasons, yet he wasn’t labeled as a terrorist in the halls of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/12 "2009-11-20T03:10:53Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Agreed on all counts. > > -XT :smack::smack::smack: Sorry, **XT** , I actually meant to quote **Spartydog** when he said this: > [@Spartydog](#): > > I suppose if somehow Ft. Hood can be labeled a terrorist attack the anti-Obamas can accuse him of being negligent and can claim an attack occurred on his watch. That’s very convenient for their agenda. Which doesn’t entirely invalidate his point; I’m sure there’s people who would happily blame Pres. O for the sinking of the Maine, as well as the Kennedy assasination. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/13 "2009-11-20T03:18:57Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > Before it is labeled a “terrorist attack” I want to see some evidence that this was a planned attack with planning that involved other people. Why this arbitrary definition? And is this definition appropriate to the challenge we face? I’d like to know whether a similar event in Israel would have been considered a terrorist attack. If a Palestinian had charged into an army base there and started shooting soldiers, would Israelis sit down and have a thoughtful discussion to the tume of “now hold on, this fellow was troubled, maybe he had strictly personal motivations we can’t fathom, his correspondence with terrorist leaders and his own espoused beliefs notwithstanding.” ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/14 "2009-11-20T03:21:02Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Which doesn’t entirely invalidate his point; I’m sure there’s people who would happily blame Pres. O for the sinking of the Maine, as well as the Kennedy assasination. Responding to an inconvenient question in the Bush years: “Why do you hate America?” Responding to an inconvenient question in the Obama years: “Why do you hate Obama?” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/15 "2009-11-20T03:30:09Z")
> **[terrorist attack](https://www.thefreedictionary.com/terrorist+attack)** > > Definition, Synonyms, Translations of terrorist attack by The Free Dictionary Terrorist attack is defined as an attack against civilians to obtain political or religious aims. A nut who shot soldiers does not qualify. What political or religious aims was he likely to sway with that attack? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/16 "2009-11-20T03:32:10Z")
That seems a rather tortured definition. It’s interesting how, like the war thread, a lot of this stuff hinges on convoluted and narrowly defined definitions, ehe? -XT ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/17 "2009-11-20T03:33:02Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Why this arbitrary definition? And is this definition appropriate to the challenge we face? > > I’d like to know whether a similar event in Israel would have been considered a terrorist attack. If a Palestinian had charged into an army base there and started shooting soldiers, would Israelis sit down and have a thoughtful discussion to the tume of “now hold on, this fellow was troubled, maybe he had strictly personal motivations we can’t fathom, his correspondence with terrorist leaders and his own espoused beliefs notwithstanding.” Again, does it correspond to other similar systematic events? The Ft. Hood shooting appears to be an isolated attack of one individual. A series of attacks by suicide bombers is something different. It seems to me that a pattern has to be established to label an event a “terrorist attack”. Such things have to be coordinated by an organization. Was the guy in Pennsylvania that shot up a bunch of people in a heath club a terrorist? He was about on the same level and just as crazy and misguided as the Ft. Hood shooter. Nobody got up in Congress and tried to make headlines by going into histrionics about rejected, middle aged white guy losers. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/18 "2009-11-20T03:36:43Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > That seems a rather tortured definition. It’s interesting how, like the war thread, a lot of this stuff hinges on convoluted and narrowly defined definitions, ehe? > > -XT The Ft. Hood shooter at least did shoot at other soldiers. I’d call it an attack with a terroristic bent, but not a full-blown Terrorist Attack. I’m with **gonzo** on this one; a true terrorist attack targets civilians in a somewhat (typically) indiscriminate method (suicide bombs, hijacking planes and flying them into buildings, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/19 "2009-11-20T03:40:36Z")
Would you say that the attack on the Cole was not a terrorist attack then? What about the attack against the Pentagon? How about the suicide bombing of the Marines? -XT ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215/20 "2009-11-20T03:43:59Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Would you say that the attack on the Cole was not a terrorist attack then? What about the attack against the Pentagon? How about the suicide bombing of the Marines? > > -XT Since they picked military targets, I’d again say they were attacks with a somewhat terroristic bent, but no, not full-blown, official Terrorist Attacks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ft-hood-shootings-a-terrorist-attack/518215.md?page=2)