# FTR: No matter how harsh I get here with the nasty wordsies, I am not "persecuting" you **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591 "2014-04-07T23:17:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/61 "2014-04-08T17:01:18Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’m familiar with him, I just think that if he lived in Indonesia, he’d be complaining about all of the ways Islam is affecting his life. Perhaps, but until and unless he moves to Indonesia, we won’t know. He is on record as saying the Christianity has done more harm than any other institution (or something along those lines). > [@](#): > > You made note to say that there were posters on this board who were particularly anti-Christian, and I was wondering if you meant they specifically had a beef with Christianity, or they were generally anti-religion and naturally that took the form of rubbing up against the dominant religion of where they live. > > The idea that Christianity has a special place among the persecuted is an idea that’s part of the Christian identity, but I think you’re incorrect to support the idea by suggesting that anyone here is specifically anti-Christian rather than simply anti-religious. I’m not aware of anyone here who is anti-Christian but not anti-religion, generally. And it could well be that Christianity gets more flack simply because it is the dominant religion in the West. But that doesn’t change the fact that Christians, in particular, get a lot of flack from some number of very vocal posters. I’m not seeing that it matters much why that is. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/62 "2014-04-08T17:11:35Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > **Bricker** would much rather engage in a slap fight with the shrieking harpies and low hanging fruit of those who disagree with him than deal with actual debate or acknowledge points that weaken his argument. It’s just so much easier. Yeah, and it seems exaggerated lately; I decided that he must have some reason to be pricklier than usual in recent threads. That liquor thread where he kept jabbing at **John Mace** like he was scoring points was Ben Stiller-level awkwardness. I guess at some point if you’re a conservative poster you give up on the debate, such as it is, and just start trying to rack up kills. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/63 "2014-04-08T17:14:58Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > **Bricker** would much rather engage in a slap fight with the shrieking harpies and low hanging fruit of those who disagree with him than deal with actual debate or acknowledge points that weaken his argument. It’s just so much easier. Oh, you didn’t! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/64 "2014-04-08T17:15:32Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Yeah, and it seems exaggerated lately; I decided that he must have some reason to be pricklier than usual in recent threads. That liquor thread where he kept jabbing at **John Mace** like he was scoring points was Ben Stiller-level awkwardness. I guess at some point if you’re a conservative poster you give up on the debate, such as it is, and just start trying to rack up kills. That was pretty strange. We’ve often seen **Bricker** try and set traps for “liberal hypocrisy”, but I don’t know what that thread was… There was no there there. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/65 "2014-04-08T17:15:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Given the level of hostility directed at my contributions, I suggest that the purpose of the thread was to garner agreement from like-minded contributers, and brook no dissent. The like-minded about what? About what the definition of the word “persecution” is? What possible reason would there be for the liberal hive mind to get into group consensus mode about which of several dictionary definitions is the correct one, in a context such as this one? It’s entirely possible for Christians and non-Christians to have a spirited debate about whether Christians are persecuted in America, and for each side to really feel like they were the ones making the better arguments, while agreeing completely about what definition of “persecution” they are using. What’s ridiculous is for you to come in and say “hey, words have meaning, I found a single dictionary cite for this one definition of the word, and I’m going to start using it” even though no one else ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT was using that definition, and then act all victimized and put-upon when people get cross at you. The weird thing about it is that even if somehow you were right, that wouldn’t really get you anywhere. Suppose you consulted a panel of experts in the history of language, along with Watson-the-IBM-Jeopardy-champion-computer, and you produced an absolutely convincing and masterfully written document demonstrating that the most common and most useful definition of the word “persecution” is the one you were championing, and all of the rest of us, in a moment of clarity, nodded our heads and said “yup, that’s sure as heck what the word persecution means, we were wrong, well argued Bricker”. Then we’d go back and start a new thread entitled “why do Christians, the largest religious group in America, feel that they are victimized and systematically mistreated in a way that causes substantive harm”, and the debate would be exactly where it started, and your entire hijack would have accomplished nothing, EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE RIGHT THE ENTIRE TIME (in this hypothetical). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/66 "2014-04-08T17:53:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not aware of anyone here who is anti-Christian but not anti-religion, generally. And it could well be that Christianity gets more flack simply because it is the dominant religion in the West. But that doesn’t change the fact that Christians, in particular, get a lot of flack from some number of very vocal posters. I’m not seeing that it matters much why that is. Christians have a persecution complex as part of their identity. If there were really people out there that persecuted Christianity specifically, and not just rebelled against the dominant religion of where they live, and hence, the one that most affects them, that would give some sort of evidence in favor of this supposed persecution. But it’s not - very few people specifically hate Christianity and want to persecute it. At most, people want to be free from the negative influences of religion, and since Christianity is utterly dominant in the west, by necesity most of the rebelling against religious control is targeted towards Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/67 "2014-04-08T18:21:04Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The like-minded about what? About what the definition of the word “persecution” is? What possible reason would there be for the liberal hive mind to get into group consensus mode about which of several dictionary definitions is the correct one, in a context such as this one? > > It’s entirely possible for Christians and non-Christians to have a spirited debate about whether Christians are persecuted in America, and for each side to really feel like they were the ones making the better arguments, while agreeing completely about what definition of “persecution” they are using. What’s ridiculous is for you to come in and say “hey, words have meaning, I found a single dictionary cite for this one definition of the word, and I’m going to start using it” even though no one else ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT was using that definition, and then act all victimized and put-upon when people get cross at you. No, it’s not entirely possible. By your definition of “persecution,” Christians are not persecuted in the United States. Period. It’s not possible to have a debate about that proposition, spirited or otherwise. > [@](#): > > The weird thing about it is that even if somehow you were right, that wouldn’t really get you anywhere. Suppose you consulted a panel of experts in the history of language, along with Watson-the-IBM-Jeopardy-champion-computer, and you produced an absolutely convincing and masterfully written document demonstrating that the most common and most useful definition of the word “persecution” is the one you were championing, and all of the rest of us, in a moment of clarity, nodded our heads and said “yup, that’s sure as heck what the word persecution means, we were wrong, well argued Bricker”. Then we’d go back and start a new thread entitled “why do Christians, the largest religious group in America, feel that they are victimized and systematically mistreated in a way that causes substantive harm”, and the debate would be exactly where it started, and your entire hijack would have accomplished nothing, EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE RIGHT THE ENTIRE TIME (in this hypothetical). On the contrary (again). The answer to that second question would be easy, and not raise much in the way of spirited debate, or even lackadaisical debate. I think I’ve said it five or six times now: Christians in the United States generally don’t believe that they are victimized and systematically mistreated in a way that causes substantive harm. The complaints Christians have go to the more subtle mistreatments that don’t rise to that level. I doubt you could find any significant number of American Christians who would agree with the proposition that Christians in the United States today are victimized and systematically mistreated in a way that causes substantive harm. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/68 "2014-04-08T18:36:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Does that rise to the level of “persecution”? It probably can feel that way to certain religious folk who post here. But I would not consider this MB to represent the US, and would not accept that Christians are persecuted in any meaningful way IRL in the US. > [@Bricker](#): > > And didn’t I agree with this general point in the thread? > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > In American society, Christians enjoy a similar – indeed, perhaps even greater – advantage in terms of numbers and political power. They certainly suffer some hostility and ill-treatment, and can fairly be said to experience persecution. **But it’s not the kind of treatment that should engage a neutral observer to worry, because society as a whole remains comfortably monolithically Christian, and the persecution in question will not lead to any real threat.** Why yes, so you did. I concede that I had checked out of reading the thread quite a long time before you posted that, so I didn’t read it until I checked out this thread; still, it cannot be denied that you posted that. Given this demonstration that you are fully capable of discerning the connotation(s) of the word “persecution,” it does raise the question of why you appeared to think that your [initial contribution](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17245442&postcount=6) to the thread was germane or pertinent to the question raised in the OP of that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/69 "2014-04-08T18:41:33Z")
**Bricker** had it right in the ATMB thread - the OP wanted a nice cozy Christian-bashing circle jerk. And didn’t get it. Boo hoo. You people are such _pussies_. “We can’t whine all the time about how other people whine all the time!” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/70 "2014-04-08T18:50:42Z")
Well, you are what you eat. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/71 "2014-04-08T18:53:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Bricker** had it right in the ATMB thread - the OP wanted a nice cozy Christian-bashing circle jerk. And didn’t get it. Boo hoo. > > You people are such _pussies_. “We can’t whine all the time about how other people whine all the time!” > > Regards, > Shodan Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/72 "2014-04-08T18:54:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, it’s not entirely possible. By your definition of “persecution,” Christians are not persecuted in the United States. Period. It’s not possible to have a debate about that proposition, spirited or otherwise. Actually I think there IS an interesting debate to be had there, and, somewhat ironically given recent threads, it DOES have to do with the fact that “persecution” is ill defined. If “persecution” means being killed for what you believe in, no honest or reasonable Christians in America thinks that they are “persecuted”. If “persecution” means that sometimes people are mean to you, then no honest or reasonable person cares because it’s so broad and meaningless. But there are gradations between those two extremes, and there are also some key elements, such as whether there is a systematic pattern or not, that might or might not apply. So I think that an at least vaguely reasonable Christian might, for instance, look at a collection of court cases concerning prayer in school and think “hey, those are part of a systematic pattern”, while another vaguely reasonable person might look at those cases and say “hey, precisely where the separation of church and state should be is a complicated issue, so it’s entirely reasonable and even expected that over all the schools in the nation there are going to be some court cases trying to suss out exactly where that line should be”. And meanwhile the vaguely reasonable Christians who saw what they perceived as a pattern (right or wrongly) decided that they wanted tell people about it, and while doing so (as people of all stripes do) chose language that was perhaps slightly over-strong for purposes of getting people riled up, and then other less scrupulous people took that language and ran with it and hey presto suddenly there’s a war on Christianity, etc. That type of thing is interesting to discuss and debate, and there are at least parts of it where reasonable people can disagree, but that whole discussion got utterly derailed by you saying “well, here’s a dictionary definition of persecution, words have meanings”. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/73 "2014-04-08T19:00:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > On the contrary (again). The answer to that second question would be easy, and not raise much in the way of spirited debate, or even lackadaisical debate. I think I’ve said it five or six times now: Christians in the United States generally don’t believe that they are victimized and systematically mistreated in a way that causes substantive harm. The complaints Christians have go to the more subtle mistreatments that don’t rise to that level. Having just had a gander at the Mila Kunis/Baby v. Bourbon thread, I would like to thank you for the laugh you just gave me when you [del]complained[/del] speculated that a subject would not likely raise much spirited debate. > [@Bricker](#): > > I doubt you could find any significant number of American Christians who would agree with the proposition that Christians in the United States today are victimized and systematically mistreated in a way that causes substantive harm. I think the question to be debated is: _Do American Christians (or their self-appointed media spokespersons) tend to conflate the connotations of that definition with the actual dictionary definition that you argued for in that thread?_ If the answer is “yes,” we could follow up with: _how much excoriation should be heaped upon their heads for their disingenuousness?_ And if the answer is “no,” we could discuss _how far they from crossing that line?_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/74 "2014-04-08T19:01:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … The complaints Christians have go to the more subtle mistreatments that don’t rise to that level… I suspect that since the fall of Rome, most persecution of Christians has been performed by other Christians. Can’t really say much about “subtle” persecution, that’s kinda over my pay grade. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/75 "2014-04-08T19:23:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Bricker** had it right in the ATMB thread - the OP wanted a nice cozy Christian-bashing circle jerk. And didn’t get it. Boo hoo. > > You people are such _pussies_. “We can’t whine all the time about how other people whine all the time!” > > Regards, > Shodan I think that’s the gist of it. There are certain posters here who simply cannot understand that some issues really do have two sides and reasonable people can disagree about which side is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/76 "2014-04-08T19:28:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Why yes, so you did. I concede that I had checked out of reading the thread quite a long time before you posted that, so I didn’t read it until I checked out this thread; still, it cannot be denied that you posted that. > > Given this demonstration that you are fully capable of discerning the connotation(s) of the word “persecution,” it does raise the question of why you appeared to think that your [initial contribution](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17245442&postcount=6) to the thread was germane or pertinent to the question raised in the OP of that thread. Because the OP was relying on Christians claiming they were persecuted and his own definition that disproved the persecution – and the flaw with that argument was that not everyone agreed on how much negative consequence has to exist before it’s fair to say “persecution.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/77 "2014-04-08T20:10:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because the OP was relying on Christians claiming they were persecuted and his own definition that disproved the persecution – and the flaw with that argument was that not everyone agreed on how much negative consequence has to exist before it’s fair to say “persecution.” Are they being fed to the lions? Are they prohibited from public office? Are the sent to ghettos? Are they not allowed in public areas without suspicion? Are obstacles put in the place of their voting? Are they not allowed to own firearms? Are they held up for public contempt as a group by officials? Are they put to death and disposed of in ovens or mass graves? Are the called sub-human? Are they enslaved? Are they avoided? Are they not allowed to work with people not of the persecuted group? Are they subject to public beatings? Are crimes against them encouraged or ignored? I suppose we could go on. As a Christian, I think that I am not discriminated against on that basis. Nor do I think Christianity in the USA is subject to either discrimination or persecution. I think the claim is fuckin’ preposterous. There are, however, branches of Christianity that I am bigoted against. Snake handlers. Tongue speakers. Faith healers. TV preachers. These sorts of people run the gamut from deeply and wilfully ignorant to slimy rip-off artists (I’m lookin’ at you Pat “please die soon” Robertson.) I’m convinced that Bricker does these argument threads simply to keep the sharp edge on his bullshitting skills, and it can be a form of trolling, although it probably isn’t for his personal amusement. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/78 "2014-04-08T20:14:31Z")
A reasonable statement. I feel it’s a bit less reasonable to expect even very intelligent readers to tease that out from what you posted. ETA: that was intended as a response to **Bricker** , btw. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/79 "2014-04-08T20:15:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It took you four days to come up with a response, and this is the best you can do? Remember, Brainglutton is kind of a moron. Other than cutting and pasting links to other people’s words, he writes at about a first grade level…his comprehension is somewhat below that. Given that, that’s a pretty articulate\* response from him. \*Note for Brain Glutton “articulate” means “he shoor talks reel purdy.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591/80 "2014-04-08T20:35:03Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > That type of thing is interesting to discuss and debate, and there are at least parts of it where reasonable people can disagree, but that whole discussion got utterly derailed by you saying “well, here’s a dictionary definition of persecution, words have meanings”. Ironically, “words mean things” is the very first thing I’d say in response to such a bogus, historically-illiterate definition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ftr-no-matter-how-harsh-i-get-here-with-the-nasty-wordsies-i-am-not-persecuting-you/685591.md?page=5)