# Fuck all you warmongering pieces of shit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 22, 2025, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962 "2025-06-22T01:26:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/561 "2025-06-29T19:53:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > None of us here can answer “who started it”, to the violence in the Middle East, because any side can always point to something even earlier that “started it”, all the way back to the dawn of history. Wrong, so very very wrong. This tired trope needs to die yesterday. It’s used by those ignorant of history as a thought-stopping cliché. Usually phrased as “Those Middle Easterners have been fighting each other for thousands of years, what can you do…” That is grossly false. The Ottoman Empire took the Levant in 1516. For the next 400 years there was no fighting there. It was a _Pax Ottomanica_. There was no Arab–Jewish conflict. It didn’t exist and never had existed. The Arab–Jewish conflict is only one hundred years old. It started in the 1920s. It was the fault of the British, who mismanaged their mandate and then washed their hands of the problem they had started. We sure can answer “who started it”: it was the British. Though Lawrence of Arabia makes for a thrilling movie, it was the aftermath of that which started the trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/562 "2025-06-29T20:03:23Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > That is grossly false. The Ottoman Empire took the Levant in 1516. For the next 400 years there was no fighting there. It was a _Pax Ottomanica_. There was no Arab–Jewish conflict. It didn’t exist and never had existed. LOL! LMAO, even! If there was no “Arab-Jewish conflict” during this time, it is because throughout the Middle East, the Arabs (and in places their Ottoman masters too) had their boots firmly planted upon our _dhimmi_ necks. (Not that Christians were any better, and the worst of the slaughters came from Crusaders). “_There was no Black-White conflict under Jim Crow!_”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/563 "2025-06-29T22:47:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I have no idea if that is a fair characterization on the other hand. Keeping these aid distribution sites safe is a major ordeal. Maybe keeping them open longer would be helpful, maybe harmful. Part of the reason Gazans are acting the way they are is because _they are starving to death._ Keeping aid distribution centers open longer would help alleviate that desperation. Having _regular hours_ and _consistent hours_ of operation would help alleviate that desperation. > [@Babale](#): > > First, no, firing a shot over a crowd is _not_ guaranteed to injure and kill. If every time you open the aid station _scores of people get killed_ then they are emphatically NOT “firing into a hillside” or in any safe manner so _fucking stop doing that._ > [@Babale](#): > > Second, they’re doing it because people are approaching a restricted military position. Why is the aid station for Gazans next to such a place? _Move one or the other._ This is not rocket science. > [@Babale](#): > > I will absolutely _not_ agree that they need to step aside and let terrorist supporters do it instead. According to the Israeli government and the IDF _everybody else in the world is a tool of Hamas._ Which is fucking ridiculous. > [@Babale](#): > > Because other third party observers and other members of the IDF are saying very different things, and when I look at my understanding of the situation in the area and in Israeli politics and of the way the IDF functions and of Israeli society, one version of events makes much more sense than the other. > > It would be like if someone tried to convince you that a major driving force in the Republican party is a desire to implement socialist policy. Maybe they had a bunch of alleged evidence, but it just wouldn’t really jive for you, would it? What most disturbs me is that you won’t for even a moment consider that Israeli just might in the wrong about _something._ See, the difference is that I’d at least listen to someone presenting what they believe to be evidence of “socialist policy”, even if I think it unlikely. Because I understand that over time political parties, governments, and societies can change and not always in good ways. Rather like how the Republican party _used to be_ rabidly anti-communist yet it was a Republican who opened relations with China (see Nixon’s visit to China). Unlike you I can admit my nation has committed atrocities. My nation has committed genocide against the Natives, apartheid against people of African descent, bombed civilians (numerous examples). My nation isn’t always right, in fact, sometimes it is very, very wrong. _Most_ people can admit the wrong-doing of their nations but you shout down the very possibility of an error. And that’s why I say you’re in denial, because you won’t face the human fallibility of your people as well as everyone else’s. > [@Babale](#): > > Because you’re still parroting the lie that they were shot at the aid distribution site? So… you’re saying all those videos on the internet are CGI or AI generated? _Every single report_, without exception, from _many_ different sources are deliberately lying? > [@Babale](#): > > These are incidents that occurred away from the aid center, when the aid centers were not even open, and people were coming in despite being told the area was closed and being warned off. Why the FUCK are these “aid centers” right next to such sensitive military sites that lethal force is needed to protect said military sites? And - funny that - starving people showing up looking for food. You do understand that’s something starving people do, right? > [@Babale](#): > > > [@Moriarty](#): > > > > Shooting at a starving person who arrived where you told them to get desperately needed provisions is pure barbarism. > > It’s also not a thing that happened, so ya know. Actually… it is. > [@Babale](#): > > A source that presents “they jumped over fences and crossed embankments towards a military position and got shot” as some crazy humanitarian crime has given up all credibility. _Why the FUCK are aid stations near such sensitive military zones?_ Oh, right - _seventy percent_ of Gaza is now off limits to Gazans and the IDF uses lethal force to keep it that way. No matter who they have to shoot. And the Gazans aren’t allowed to leave, either. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. > [@Babale](#): > > Holy fucking shit, I’m not saying it’s a good thing that people got shot. I’m saying that people who jump over fences at military outposts are going to get shot anywhere in the world. Actually, no - it is actually NOT standard practice to automatically shoot anyone who jumps over a fence at a “military outpost” everywhere else in the world. There _are_ some zones where the military very, very clearly posts that lethal force can be used but - what a notion - _aid stations for starving people aren’t set up next to them!_ Arrested? Sure. Usually it’s lost hikers or lost tourists or the like. If they’re harmless they’re released. If they’re not harmless then the military police or other appropriate authority deals with them… but “deals with them” doesn’t normally involve shooting them out of hand. I get that it’s a war zone - rules are slightly different than in peace time - but if you’re right next to a goddamned aid station for starving civilians try a little fucking restraint. Or relocate the aid station. Or relocate whatever is so fucking important that it’s worth more than a human life. It says something very negative that, apparently, the IDF’s approach to “fixing” the problem is killing people and no other alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/564 "2025-06-29T23:03:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I don’t really see how. The fact that these scientists are part of a program that went for weapons grade enrichment is what shows that they aren’t merely innocent nuclear power enthusiasts. What many apologists here want us to believe is Iran was/is never really in the making an atomic bomb game. Clearly they were/are. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/565 "2025-06-29T23:04:31Z")
I don’t agree that only one “side” started it but from this description it sounds like the ottomans started it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/566 "2025-06-29T23:29:06Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What many apologists here want us to believe is Iran was/is never really in the making an atomic bomb game. > > Clearly they were/are. What some people here want us to believe is that they’re not building strawmen to deflect from their wholesale repetition of blatantly false Israeli propaganda. Clearly they are. Nobody said Iran weren’t interested in building an atomic bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/567 "2025-06-29T23:37:14Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Nobody said Iran weren’t interested in building an atomic bomb. But that’s the whole thing right there. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/568 "2025-06-29T23:49:52Z")
And with our dumb, apparently ineffective bombing, we may have made it more likely Iran gets a nuke. Fuck the warmongers. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/569 "2025-06-30T00:03:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Second, they’re doing it because people are approaching a restricted military position. > > Why is the aid station for Gazans next to such a place? _Move one or the other._ This is not rocket science. The army is there to protect the aid station, obviously. It’s not nearby by _coincidence_. If the army wasn’t there, Hamas would come and kill the aid workers and the “Israeli collaborators” protecting them and take the aid. Rather counterproductive. > [@Broomstick](#): > > According to the Israeli government and the IDF _everybody else in the world is a tool of Hamas._ Nah, that’s a pretty silly thing to say. > [@Broomstick](#): > > What most disturbs me is that you won’t for even a moment consider that Israeli just might in the wrong about _something._ Israel is wrong about a whole lot of things. Another idiotic statement. > [@Broomstick](#): > > So… you’re saying all those videos on the internet are CGI or AI generated? _Every single report_, without exception, from _many_ different sources are deliberately lying? None of the credible reports are about the original claim, which was that Israel is randomly shooting up people waiting in line for food. That’s what I said was a lie. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Why the FUCK are these “aid centers” right next to such sensitive military sites that lethal force is needed to protect said military sites? [Because Hamas keeps murdering the aid workers when the IDF is too far away,](https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-859425) you fucking moron. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Why the FUCK are aid stations near such sensitive military zones? AGAIN, because Hamas keeps murdering aid workers. Keep the fuck up. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually, no - it is actually NOT standard practice to automatically shoot anyone who jumps over a fence at a “military outpost” everywhere else in the world. There _are_ some zones where the military very, very clearly posts that lethal force can be used but - what a notion - _aid stations for starving people aren’t set up next to them!_ Arrested? Sure. Usually it’s lost hikers or lost tourists or the like. If they’re harmless they’re released. If they’re not harmless then the military police or other appropriate authority deals with them… but “deals with them” doesn’t normally involve shooting them out of hand. Like I said, you’re more than welcome to go rush a Ukrainian base with fifty of your buddies if you think that wouldn’t get you shot. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I get that it’s a war zone - rules are slightly different than in peace time - but if you’re right next to a goddamned aid station for starving civilians try a little fucking restraint. Or relocate the aid station. Or relocate whatever is so fucking important that it’s worth more than a human life. For the last fucking time, the army is there to protect the aid distribution center and the workers who staff it. You can’t relocate them away from each other unless you want Hamas to kill the aid workers again. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/570 "2025-06-30T00:06:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And with our dumb, apparently ineffective bombing, we may have made it more likely Iran gets a nuke. I agree this has probably stiffened Iran’s resolve to get an atomic bomb but I am not really sure that makes a difference. They wanted one before. They want one now. They have long been working towards one. Now they are working towards one but more? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/571 "2025-06-30T00:09:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I agree this has probably stiffened Iran’s resolve to get an atomic bomb but I am not really sure that makes a difference. They wanted one before. They want one now. They have always been working towards one. Now they are working towards one but more?. Plus, if they want to start rebuilding the facilities they need to work on a nuke, they might find it a little difficult since Israel has shown that it can achieve air superiority over any part of Iran at any time. Israel has, mostly through subterfuge, delayed Iran’s project for many years already. Where does this idea that they’ll just stand by and let Iran restart its nuclear project come from? Remember, this is a ceasefire, not a peace treaty. It can end at any time. If Iran wants a more permanent peace, they’ll have to agree to give up enrichment. There is zero reason for Israel to agree to a peace that doesn’t include the elimination of Iran’s nuclear program and strict limits on their ballistic missiles too. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/572 "2025-06-30T00:12:27Z")
I will add… I think Iran will inevitably make their own atomic bomb. I think Israel and the US can slow them down but never stop them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/573 "2025-06-30T00:15:34Z")
@Babale, serious question: Why do you so vehemently support a Hamas ally? Because Netanyahu and Hamas are definitely allies. Both want the same thing: War and violence with as many atrocities as possible, on both sides, because atrocities on either side firm up the support for both of them. Both of them work together towards this common goal. When there are two factions in a conflict that want the same goals, and work together to achieve those goals, they’re allies. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/574 "2025-06-30T00:19:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Because Netanyahu and Hamas are definitely allies. I think that claim definitely requires a bit more support. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/575 "2025-06-30T00:21:36Z")
Which is why I posted the next three sentences. Do you dispute any of the premises in those? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/576 "2025-06-30T00:23:26Z")
That’s not support. That’s your feels. Which is fine but, for the SDMB, do you have anything more to support what you are saying? Like proof Netanyahu and Hamas are in cahoots? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/577 "2025-06-30T00:25:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > @Babale, serious question: Why do you so vehemently support a Hamas ally? Because Netanyahu and Hamas are definitely allies. Serious answer: I don’t support Netanyahu. I blame him for October 7th more than anyone else on the Israeli side, I disagree with almost all of his everyday policies, I find many of his political allies revolting, and most of all, I think his judicial reform bill is an absolute disgrace and a naked attempt to turn Israel into a dictatorship. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/578 "2025-06-30T00:27:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Both want the same thing: War and violence with as many atrocities as possible, on both sides, because atrocities on either side firm up the support for both of them. Both of them work together towards this common goal. When there are two factions in a conflict that want the same goals, and work together to achieve those goals, they’re allies. I don’t really think that’s an accurate description of Netanyahu. But I can’t really convince you of a different assessment I’ve come to through watching the man for the twenty years or so I’ve cared about politics; so I’m not going to try. But that aside, I find him just as distasteful as you do, even if for other reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/579 "2025-06-30T00:29:07Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Like proof Netanyahu and Hamas are in cahoots? Netanyahu famously allowed Qatari funds meant for humanitarian aid to enter Gaza, where the government is Hamas. He is (rightly) maligned for this move in Israel, but the way it’s portrayed abroad - that he’s directly funding Hamas as a proxy or something - is pretty silly. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2025, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962/580 "2025-06-30T00:31:07Z")
So…Netanyahu funded Hamas but didn’t? I do not understand this. Did he or didn’t he? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-all-you-warmongering-pieces-of-shit/1019962.md?page=30)