# Fuck Attention-Seeking Worker Bees, Fuck Nepotism. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925 "2013-11-14T19:34:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/21 "2013-11-14T23:41:49Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think his beef is with the fact that in some places, the guy who comes in at 7:30 and leaves at 5:00, does his job well enough to the point where there’s no drama, no issues and everything is smooth, gets overlooked for promotions and raises in favor of the person showing up at 10, but leaving at 6:30, who always is behind the 8 ball and letting everyone know, and who may manage to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, but always in a last-minute, dramatic way. > > It’s like some perverse version of “squeaky wheel gets the grease”- I’ve had it happen to me a time or two- being good enough at your job that it ceases to become a drama and isn’t a high profile project as a result somehow makes your performance less “worthwhile” relative to those working on things that are high profile simply because they are being mismanaged. Sweet jesus bump get out of my head GET OUT OF MY HEAD! You hit the nail on the head so hard I swear you are in the office next to me…are you? ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/22 "2013-11-14T23:48:44Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > If you want to find out if you’re as good at your job as you think you are, quit. > > If they say “ok” you weren’t that good at it. > If they try to talk you out of it, you were acceptable at it. > If they try to get you to you to stay with more money or other perks you were pretty good at it. > If they try to keep you with a real promotion and money you were very good at it and they were just waiting for you to show some initiative. Doesn’t really work that way in the public sector or even most large companies. Large companies will often have to go through a process to have a headcount approved before they can offer a job and even then they need to advertise the position. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/23 "2013-11-15T00:01:13Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > One thing I’ve learned over the years, if something isn’t your job - just don’t do it. Take on extra tasks if you’re asked to, of course, but just voluntarily going above and beyond sounds great and all but rarely does it really pay off. Better to spend your time learning the politics of the office and who you need to be in good with to get the attention you’re lacking. You can still kick ass at your job and all that, but make sure the right people are looking out for you. I would amend this: know where you are trying to go, career-wise, and only take on things that aren’t your job if they advance you in the direction you want to go in, by giving you new skills, or new contacts, or whatever. Don’t do things that aren’t your job because they “need doing”, do them because they lead to wherever you want to be. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/24 "2013-11-15T00:41:21Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > If you want to find out if you’re as good at your job as you think you are, quit. I’m fixing to “test” management in this way. A position in another office in my agency has opened up. Friendly hints have been thrown my way by people “in the know” that if I applied for the position, I’d get it. I don’t want the position, but I believe that I am indeed a highly qualified candidate. I’m working on the application as we speak. If I am offered the position, I plan to use it as leverage for a raise in my current position. I want my manager to make me an offer to encourage me to stay. I just have to work on my poker face since I really don’t want the job. I also have to think about what I will do if my boss calls my bluff. Sure, I’m “playing the game”. I’m pretending I want to take a position for the sake of own self-interest (and ego-trip…it feels good being recruited!) But this is the only way I can ever get a raise. I’ve gotten highly rated in my performance evaluations for three years with no pay increases. An “A+” is fine and dandy, but without a tangible reward, it’s kind of meaningless. Two pieces of advice to the OP from a fellow state employee: 1. The further you go up in any organization, it’s less about technical competency and more about personality. You don’t have to have the best personality, but you do have put the best side of your personality out there. This means doing stupid shit like participating in the employee association, leaving cookies in the breakroom, providing levity in staff meetings, and being the person that people feel comfortable talking to about a variety of subjects, not necessarily work. I’m not saying competency doesn’t matter, but it’s secondary. People are surprisingly forgiving when it comes to knowledge deficiencies. They aren’t the same when it comes to personality defects. This is never going to change. 2. Take everything you hear on the office grapevine with a grain of salt. I’m not saying don’t listen to it, because sometimes you pick up some good information. But every office seems to have a vindictive, bitter, long-suffering person who loves to tear people down behind their backs. They’ll tell you that Suzy got her job because she slept with the hiring manager, not based on any real facts but because they just don’t like Suzy and they’d find any way to denigrate her success. And don’t YOU make assumptions like that either. I suspect things were whispered about me because I landed my current position without having to compete for it. Which I agree that was unfair to the process, but I didn’t have any choice in the matter. That was a human resource and management decision, the rationale of which wasn’t shared with me. I could have been principled and simply not taken the position, but my mama didn’t raise no fool. I agree that the system is imperfect, but you can figure out how to navigate the flaws to your benefit. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/25 "2013-11-15T00:52:00Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I would amend this: know where you are trying to go, career-wise, and only take on things that aren’t your job if they advance you in the direction you want to go in, by giving you new skills, or new contacts, or whatever. Don’t do things that aren’t your job because they “need doing”, do them because they lead to wherever you want to be. I agree. Going “above and beyond” indiscriminately, just for the sake of it doesn’t make sense. If you’re always doing it, people come to accept it as “normal” and you end up wearing yourself out. But “extra” that is strategically placed and timed can certainly raise your profile. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/26 "2013-11-15T01:33:10Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Doesn’t really work that way in the public sector or even most large companies. Large companies will often have to go through a process to have a headcount approved before they can offer a job and even then they need to advertise the position. Well, at least you can find out if you were at least acceptable at it. That said, I’ve worked several of the largest companies out there. And if someone is really worth keeping tries to quit something can be worked out to try and change their mind. Of course, your manager and that person’s manager may suck at that game but you were quitting (like I said, quit your job, don’t let them talk you out of it; if they really want you they’ll be willing to bring you back later and that is a much stronger position than trying to advance or get raises internally). ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/27 "2013-11-15T02:51:18Z")
Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/28 "2013-11-15T03:51:13Z")
Maybe more than the minimum requisite pieces of flair would do the trick! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/29 "2013-11-15T13:27:44Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > … finding a Public Sector accounting job in Georgia? … I imagine counting is a rare and valuable skill in Georgia, but perhaps I’m biased. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/30 "2013-11-15T13:53:48Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > As to why I want to stay public; student loan forgiveness in 10 years. Since I already have 3 years it would only be 7 more to go and that is significant for me. How much is student loan forgiveness really worth to you? From what I’ve seen, it’s a nice perk but not nearly enough to compensate for the lower pay you get in the public sector. The loan forgiveness might essentially be worth (say) $20k, but in the private sector you could be earning an extra $5k per year for the next seven years. But you’re an accountant so I’m sure you’ve done this calculation… ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/31 "2013-11-15T14:58:43Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Well, on top of records management improvement (which probably can’t be quantified) that made records much more accessible (even though it isn’t technically my job) which should help protect us from lawsuits, in my first month I switched all the paper records for my position to electronic. That’s about 5-10k pages per year. Oh, and I instituted a successful direct deposit policy that reduced our amount of checks printer per year by 15,000. It goes on and on, and there is no point in proving it on the internet. Of course savings due to records management improvement can be estimated. Improving the general infrastructure (records management) can be seen as everyone’s job. You are making a serious mistake in calculating savings in terms of goods only. No, there is no point in telling _ **us** _; tell your boss, with numbers - including estimates - to back you up at your next review. And the next time you get an idea, write up a project plan, with timeline and deliverables and due dates, and **inform** your boss this is something you intend to do in addition to your regular tasks, and keep her informed of your progress. (I would recommend five minutes every two weeks while standing up; bosses love it when you look like you don’t intend to take a lot of time.) (And being seen lunching with people in other departments probably couldn’t hurt.) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/32 "2013-11-15T18:05:34Z")
> [@digs](#): > > \ > I once stuck my head in my boss’s office and said “Hey, you don’t mind if I ignore all the drama and don’t even defend myself against crazy accusations, and just keep my head down and get my work done, do you?” > He looked up with a sardonic grin and said “You don’t know how rare that is… now, get outta here. Get back to keeping your head down.” > > (ETA: I did end up as a Supervisor… after the drama queens imploded, there was “no one else with grey hair left”.) A boss like that is as rare and precious as diamonds (which you probably knew). > [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays. > [@digs](#): > > Maybe more than the minimum requisite pieces of flair would do the trick! Hah - that’s just where I was going to go! There’s a reason everyone who has ever worked in an office watches “Office Space” and recognizes every scene in it. **Anthony** , as others have said, you’re going to run into this kind of thing pretty much everywhere you go. You have to figure out how to just tend to your own knitting, get what you need out of a job/career, and let the drama-queens and pork-barrellers have their drama without getting it on you. If you can find a boss who can see through all the bullshit and does the right thing, never let them go. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/33 "2013-11-15T18:08:26Z")
> [@j666](#): > > \ > No, there is no point in telling _ **us** _; tell your boss, with numbers - including estimates - to back you up at your next review. > > And the next time you get an idea, write up a project plan, with timeline and deliverables and due dates, and **inform** your boss this is something you intend to do in addition to your regular tasks, and keep her informed of your progress. (I would recommend five minutes every two weeks while standing up; bosses love it when you look like you don’t intend to take a lot of time.) > > (And being seen lunching with people in other departments probably couldn’t hurt.) This is very good advice; you might think that being competent or better at your job is something supervisors will notice, but a much better plan is to keep on telling them what a star you are - “I finished that report you assigned me this morning, and I was planning on moving on to tomorrow’s meeting - that work for you?” ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/34 "2013-11-15T18:14:36Z")
As far as nepotism goes, the fact is that a bad employee can cost you a fortune, or even destroy a company. Hiring a known element has real advantages for a company, and sometime the way you know someone is through family. Other times, not so much, but I’ve certainly seen it go that way as often as not. ---
**Author:** ![Cognoscant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Cognoscant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cognoscant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/35 "2013-11-15T18:40:43Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > If you want to find out if you’re as good at your job as you think you are, quit. > > If they say “ok” you weren’t that good at it. > If they try to talk you out of it, you were acceptable at it. > If they try to get you to you to stay with more money or other perks you were pretty good at it. > If they try to keep you with a real promotion and money you were very good at it and they were just waiting for you to show some initiative. Most personnel experts I’ve read think these days that this is terrible career advice. The argument they make is that most employers think if you’ve quit, you’ve either identified another job/source of employment or gotten so fed up with the company you’ve walked away. Either way, you’re probably not going to be an employee they want to keep from a morale standpoint no matter how good an employee you were. I can’t find any reason to disagree with that argument. So what it means is, no matter how good you were, they’re just going to show you the door. Talk about an expensive way of finding out how good you were at your job. ---
**Author:** ![Cognoscant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Cognoscant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cognoscant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/36 "2013-11-15T18:44:31Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > As far as nepotism goes, the fact is that a bad employee can cost you a fortune, or even destroy a company. Hiring a known element has real advantages for a company, and sometime the way you know someone is through family. Other times, not so much, but I’ve certainly seen it go that way as often as not. Of course, I’ve seen companies hire a “known element” who proceeded to wreck their company (or at least wreck their department). A colleague of mine worked for a department where the AVP decided to ignore the hiring committee’s recommendations on an office manager and brought in her own candidate who she knew tangentially and “had been recommended to her by friends and relatives.” That was four years ago, and five people in the office (which only had eight people to begin with!) have now quit because of this office manager’s boorish, sexist behavior. Just because someone’s a friend, or a friend of a friend, doesn’t mean they’re necessarily a good employee. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/37 "2013-11-15T20:00:11Z")
> [@Cognoscant](#): > > So what it means is, no matter how good you were, they’re just going to show you the door. Talk about an expensive way of finding out how good you were at your job. That’s not my experience as I’ve been offered much to not quit many times. So maybe ti is terrible advice for people who aren’t as good as they think they are. But then I don’t really take any great stock in what personnel experts (whatever those are) think. And of course you don’t just walk out the door without explanation. You let them know you’re leaving not out of disgruntlement but because the opportunities haven’t come as fast, or the rewards weren’t as high, as you think were warranted. But still, you’re quitting, so in the end it doesn’t matter if they try to keep you. That’s just an ego stroke. But I agree that quitting is never something to bluff with; if you say you’re leaving, you better be willing to leave. Only play chicken if you’re willing to die. If there’s something you want and you think you deserve it. Ask for it. But if you don’t get it you have to be willing to leave because if you stay they have no reason to ever give it to you. If you just want stability and minimal career risk then keep your head down, figure out how to live with whatever recognition falls your way, and be good at what you do. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/38 "2013-11-15T20:04:23Z")
> [@Cognoscant](#): > > Just because someone’s a friend, or a friend of a friend, doesn’t mean they’re necessarily a good employee. You don’t blindly rely on that, of course, but given two equal candidates, I’m going with the guy I personally know isn’t flaky. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/39 "2013-11-15T23:55:56Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > One thing I’ve learned over the years, if something isn’t your job - just don’t do it. Take on extra tasks if you’re asked to, of course, but just voluntarily going above and beyond sounds great and all but rarely does it really pay off. Bang! Got it in one. (I’ve no constructive advice for the OP, other than… yaknow… there is a whole other sector out there. Just sayin’…) ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925/40 "2013-11-16T01:14:09Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > This is very good advice; you might think that being competent or better at your job is something supervisors will notice, but a much better plan is to keep on telling them what a star you are - “I finished that report you assigned me this morning, and I was planning on moving on to tomorrow’s meeting - that work for you?” Until they start appreciating you, and assigning more work. THEN you keep the finished report on the desk until they ask for a progress report. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-attention-seeking-worker-bees-fuck-nepotism/673925.md?page=3)