# Fuck Confidence: A rant about maleness **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015 "2005-01-10T08:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/41 "2005-01-11T05:26:04Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Gotta argue with your “act” comment here. True confidence is not an act, but a part of one’s core being. Of course, if one doesn’t have it, one may fake it for a while until one gets a feel for the true thing. > > But often those that “put on an act of confidence” are the ones that come off as abrasive, abusive pricks. You are misundestanding me. To me, it is the ablity to hold your head high and carry on, despite the butterflies in your stomach (for a job interview, say). To take the risk that YOU are enough in a given situation. It has nothing to do with putting on an act to impress others etc. That is boorish and a sure sign of insecurity, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/42 "2005-01-11T06:17:36Z")
> [@look!ninjas](#): > > I think this deserves repetition: > > It seems to me that a lot of the “nice guys” in the “nice guy threads” are on a single-minded quest for a Relationship. When they meet girls, when they talk to girls, when they go out with girls, there is one thing on their mind and it ain’t sex. It’s the Almighty Relationship. They get so into the idea that they need to have a Girlfriend _right now, goddammit!_ that they start pitching some serious woo too early in the game. And that scares girls off, because it’s a hell of a lot of pressure. I don’t want your happiness to be totally dependent on me. Hell, I don’t even know you. I just want to have dinner and maybe play some mini-golf afterwards. And if I like you, we’ll go from there, but there’s no hurry. And if you try to rush me, I’m liable to lose interest. > > It’s one thing to be open to the possibilities. Go on a date, sure. See what happens. If you think she’s open to a move, make a move. But you can’t go into it with an agenda or a timeline, trying to make the girl love you in four dates or less. Just hang out. Talk. Have fun. Enjoy the time without trying to figure out what everything means and where it’s going. Realize that the world will not end if this doesn’t work out. It won’t end if the next five don’t work out. Doug is still Doug, regardless of whether or not there’s a Dougette in the picture. > > It’s not really confidence that girls are looking for. It’s independence. It’s someone who goes out with you because they like you, not because they _need_ you. And if you have that, if you know you’ll be happy whether or not you have a girlfriend, then you should be fine. DING DING DING DING DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!! Everyone is self-conscious and nervous. You can’t help that. I’m a nervous wreck when it comes to the dating game. But you can’t get yourself all worked up to the point where you think you have to Be Perfect Or Else. Because, well, perfect is boring. And guess what? Women aren’t perfect creatures to be put on a pedastal and worshipped from afar. We’re human beings with real flaws and real fears, too. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/43 "2005-01-11T06:23:31Z")
Confidence that allows you to overcome irrational fears and do what you think is best for yourself = good. Confidence that Enzyte claims to give = bad. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/44 "2005-01-11T09:39:10Z")
Women respond quite well to apathy. And I’m sure some woman will be along shortly to tell me how wrong I am. But you know what? Meh… Don’t care… ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/45 "2005-01-11T09:57:36Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Women respond quite well to apathy. > > And I’m sure some woman will be along shortly to tell me how wrong I am. But you know what? > Meh… Don’t care… If “apathy” means the man approaching us isn’t attempting to become a travel agent for guilt trips and trying to “whine” his way into a date, then you’re quite correct. We do. Given a choice between a man who calmly and casually gives the appropriate interest to a potential first date (us) and a man who does the whole “oh no, you couldn’t possibly want to go out with me, you probably have something to do, You DO want to go out with me? oh yeah, but you’ll probably just want to go somewhere where we won’t be seen…ad nauseum”. Well, the man who gives the asking of a first date APPROPRIATE, not over-exaggerated puts us on an impossible to live up to pedestal. Well, yeah, we’re gonna be more interested in the first possibility. As to “meh…I don’t care”. Okay, no problem. But those of us who happen to BE women are telling you (collective you, regarding all too shy guys) what the women you may want to ask out are likely to be thinking and feeling from their side of being asked out. Seems like insider information that might help, were you to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/46 "2005-01-11T11:37:03Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > If “apathy” means the man approaching us isn’t attempting to become a travel agent for guilt trips and trying to “whine” his way into a date, then you’re quite correct. We do. Actually you hit the nail right on the head! 🙂 (That whole meh part was ment in jest BTW) Except I would also take it a step further and say don’t get all overly excited when a woman DOES accept a date from you. Or at least contain your glee untill you get out of her line of sight. Which reminds me of a funny story: I remember once I was dating this girl for a while. It finally came time to when she was ready to give it up for me. So we go back to my place, have great sex then fell alseep in each others arms. She had to get up earlly the next morning. So we get up, I walk her to the door we say our good bye’s then I shut the door. Well, as soon as I shut the door; I was SO elated that I actually got me some; I started to do this weird dance like I had just scored the winning touch down at the Super Bowl. When I turned back around towards the door, much to my surprize and embarrassment I found that said girl had walked back into my apartment. She was just standing there slack-jawed. It took her a couple of seconds to compose herself to which she then said… “Um… I forgot my purse???” Let me tell ya’ my face must have been as red as a Washington Apple that day… :o ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/47 "2005-01-11T22:45:18Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > …When I turned back around towards the door, much to my surprize and embarrassment I found that said girl had walked back into my apartment. She was just standing there slack-jawed. It took her a couple of seconds to compose herself to which she then said… > > “Um… I forgot my purse???” > > Let me tell ya’ my face must have been as red as a Washington Apple that day… :o Oh my gosh, that is CLASSIC, and sweet. Had I been that girl, I would have found it utterly adorable. Of course, if it turned out that the ONLY reason the guy was doing the little victory dance was that “he got him some”, then I’d knock him upside the head. But if it was just overall joy at the sharing and all, yeah, that’s too cute. We don’t like to be merely sexual conquests AT ALL. That isn’t to say that some women don’t also like casual sex. But way too many men, even when it’s a mutual casual sex only encounter, absolutely OOOZE the conquest mentality, ala: “haha, I got laid and you’re just the slut I tricked” kinda thinking. That is not cool. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/48 "2005-01-12T12:34:32Z")
Confidence isn’t about big swinging dick bullshit. It’s not about asskissing bullshit. It’s about being comfortable in your own skin, knowing your own strengths and limitations and being okay with both. It’s about being able to try new stuff, because the worst that can happen is it doesn’t work out, and that’s not really such a big deal. I think that last is where a lot of the “dude, you just gotta have confidence” stuff in dating threads comes from. For the confident man, the worst thing that can happen is that he’ll get rejected. Oh well, these things happen. For the less than confident man, the worst thing that can happen is that he’ll get rejected, and everyone will see and think he’s a huge loser. And maybe they’ll point and laugh and whisper about it, and his life will be ruined. RUINED, I say. The latter situation isn’t attractive, frankly. It smacks of too much stress, too much pressure. It’s scary and intimidating and overwhelming, and people run far and fast. So you need at least the appearance, the mannerisms of confidence. And those are pretty basic, really. Walk with your head up and eyes ahead. Stand up straight. Keep your upper body fairly relaxed. Smile. Speak quietly but loudly enough that people can hear you clearly. That’s pretty much all you need to come across as being confident. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/49 "2005-01-12T14:01:44Z")
> [@indecisive1](#): > > **GomiBoy** I’m sorry, I didn’t mean for that to be an insulting post. I was trying to say that I _really do_ think that men have a lot of pressure put on them. I was trying to say that I care. I guess I didn’t express myself well. Wasn’t offended at all; just wanted to throw cold water on that notion that guys can’t have feelings today. My GF likes me because I am big and strong, can kill spiders without flinching, and can clean up gross messes in the house without chucking up. But she also likes me because she knows I depend on her for support as much as she does me, and because I let her see my vulnerable side. Modern man might not have it as easy as our fathers did - we actually have to try to understand women a bit, something my dad and granddad sure as hell never worried about, but at least we can show emotion and fear and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/50 "2005-01-12T14:22:47Z")
If someone walks into a room full of people and starts off, “Listen up all you losers!!!”, is your first thought something like, “Man, he just called _us_ losers… I wonder what this is about” or is it more like, “Man, that guy is really pissed at some losers in this room… I wonder what this is about” The former is the mentality of a person with no self-confidence. Your self-confidence and self-esteem go hand in hand. Your self-image and opinion of yourself are what make you confident – not your swinging dick. If you start every task knowing that you can succeed, and you continue to try after unsuccessful attempts, then you are confident. Not cocky. How does one gain confidence? The only thing I can think of is to NEVER QUIT. It’s not failure until you stop trying. And if you’ve never truly failed, then confidence come natural. ---
**Author:** ![indecisive1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/41988e/32.png) [@indecisive1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/indecisive1)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/51 "2005-01-12T20:53:12Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > Wasn’t offended at all; just wanted to throw cold water on that notion that guys can’t have feelings today. Thanks **GomiBoy,** I’ve been trying to post more, but when I get what feels like a bad reaction I get all flustered. I need some kind of tutorial on how to survive (and thrive) in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015/52 "2005-01-12T22:11:35Z")
> [@indecisive1](#): > > Thanks **GomiBoy,** I’ve been trying to post more, but when I get what feels like a bad reaction I get all flustered. I need some kind of tutorial on how to survive (and thrive) in the pit. For my 2p - funny beats mean any day of the week. Funny _ **and** _ mean is absolute trumps 🙂 You’re doing fine, IMO [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-confidence-a-rant-about-maleness/284015.md?page=2)