# Fuck France, and Fuck the French! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2008, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931 "2008-03-03T09:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/141 "2008-03-05T10:15:26Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] No. The extension would have been “Fuck America, and Fuck the Americans”. For example, the only assholes I met on my first trip to China were Israeli. I do not, however, condemn the whole of Israel, nor all Israelis - just the ones that I met. [/quote] So you’re saying that **AngryIrishLass** ’s broad brush strokes of all Americans traveling in the UK and France are assholes is perfectly acceptable, but me saying I dislike the French and don’t want to go back there is not acceptable? > [@](#): > > Man, your asbestos grundies are squeezing a little tight, aren’t they? Not really, thanks - seem to be fine. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/142 "2008-03-05T10:32:49Z")
[QUOTE=Angua] For the most part I did. There were some instances where I did wonder though… 😉 Though I still say your ire towards _all_ the French is misplaced. I’ll join your ire with a couple of them though… 🙂 [/QUOTE] Thanks. Glad at least someone got that it was at least partially a joke. **For the record: the things I was really serious about:** 1. The TGV - Paris Undergound - Eurostar transfer really sucks the big one with a whole lot of kit to haul. I doubt I will do that again to myself. And the people travelling on said public transportation in France seem far less keen to make a little space or have a little patience with people hauling about said mountain of kit 2. The TGV customer service staff leaves a hell of a lot to be desired 3. French Cuisine is not for everyone, and is not one of my favourites 4. There are better places to ski in Europe than the French Alps. 5. Staff in Les Arcs 1950 could do with some customer service training, or at least a bit of charm 6. Salads and green veg and healthy food are more difficult to find in the Savoie in winter; they’re there, just not as easy to get. 7. Anthony Bourdain is not my idea of a gourmand 8. There are lots of places in Europe I’d rather go to than France for holidays 9. I really **really** _ **really** _don’t think anyone owes **me** anything other than common courtesy. If they don’t give it, or don’t respond courteously when I am polite and courteous to them, they don’t get it back from me 10. I am not trying to convince anyone else to not go to France, to dislike the French, to change their minds about the French (except you **Angua** ;)) or to do damage to any random French people they see. I personally will not bend over backwards to go to France in future, but to each their own 11. I like Thai food the most Ho-kay? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/143 "2008-03-05T10:36:00Z")
[QUOTE=GomiBoy] So you’re saying that **AngryIrishLass** ’s broad brush strokes of all Americans traveling in the UK and France are assholes is perfectly acceptable [/quote] She didn’t say that. She said “The only assholes I met in both the UK and France were Americans.” There’s a huge difference between saying that, and saying “all Americans traveling in the UK and France are assholes”. Can you not see the difference? She also slagged off an Italian. Do you interpret this as a “broad brush stroke” too? ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/144 "2008-03-05T11:19:35Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] She didn’t say that. She said “The only assholes I met in both the UK and France were Americans.” There’s a huge difference between saying that, and saying “all Americans traveling in the UK and France are assholes”. Can you not see the difference? She also slagged off an Italian. Do you interpret this as a “broad brush stroke” too? [/QUOTE] Semantics. Operative word - _ **AN** _ versus _ **ONLY** _. In other words (free translation) - “I met one Italian, out of many, who was an asshole. On the other hand, every single American I met was an asshole.” Are you unable to see the brush strokes being applied in this case? Further free translation (from her to me) - “You’re an American living in England, traveling in France, therefore you’re an asshole, because every American I’ve ever met who travels in the UK or France is an asshole.” So, as my Australian mates say, a hearty ‘git facked’ to her. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/145 "2008-03-05T11:27:10Z")
That’s a lot of extrapolation and inference - and ignorning what was actually said. I refer you back to **ascenray’s** “logic 101” post about Jamie Oliver. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/146 "2008-03-05T11:52:29Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] That’s a lot of extrapolation and inference - and ignorning what was actually said. I refer you back to **ascenray’s** “logic 101” post about Jamie Oliver. [/QUOTE] What, the fallacious logic part, or the part where **ascenray** calls on imaginary groupthink (who is ‘we’?) to bolster his/her argument? Or maybe the part where he/she attributes statements to me I did not make? Here’s the post, for the record: [QUOTE=ascenray] Gomi’s Proposition: Jamie Oliver is an English chef. [/QUOTE] Provably true statement. He is from England, born and raised, and is a practicing chef. This is not a proposition, this is a true statement. [QUOTE=ascenray] Gomi’s Conclusion: Jamie Oliver will agree with the statement that “All French cuisine, especially the coffee, is based on pride and poverty - they didn’t have the money to buy good ingredients, and refused to be seen to be bad at anything, so had to attempt to make good food with crap. It explains a lot about the nation, really - they eat crap that most other nations would throw away as offal and think it’s ambrosia.” [/QUOTE] Fallacious and not my conclusion at all. I said that Jamie Oliver would likely enjoy me saying that I liked his cooking style, as well as liking the resurgence of good English cooking in gastropubs, which he played a fairly large part in. Liking or disliking French cuisine would likely matter less to him, and **ascenray** made up out of whole cloth any assertion on my part that Jamie Oliver (or anyone else for that matter) would fully support my analysis of French cuisine, which was never something I said. I would add that my statements about pride and poverty driving French cuisine quoted were supported by **ascenray** him/herself in other posts citing Anthony Bourdain as agreeing with my premise (stating all nation’s cuisine was driven by this), so I fail to see how this is a topic of dissension or logical debate. Happy now? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/147 "2008-03-05T11:52:48Z")
[QUOTE=GomiBoy] Thanks but no thanks - I’d rather go to Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, or Italy if I want to go to the mountains, or Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, Morocco, Israel, or Egypt for beaches and diving. [/QUOTE] WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! That’s the mountains of Spain crying, why are you being nasty to our mountains? There, there… (Andorra has better mountains than we do, but don’t tell ours) ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/148 "2008-03-05T11:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] That’s a lot of extrapolation and inference - and ignorning what was actually said. I refer you back to **ascenray’s** “logic 101” post about Jamie Oliver. [/QUOTE] I think I can see a possible reason why **GomiBoy** had some problems with people. He’s a fucking gobshite who thinks that he’s always right and can’t be corrected. He also seems to have quite a high level of self entitlement. Fuck him, I wouldn’t bother if I was you. ---
**Author:** ![FarmerChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FarmerChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerChick)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/149 "2008-03-05T12:03:04Z")
GomiBoy, I for one have enjoyed your rant immensely! Fuck the French! Fuck the Fun Police too! Fuck Logic, it’s a rant! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/150 "2008-03-05T12:04:24Z")
[QUOTE=yojimbo] I think I can see a possible reason why **GomiBoy** had some problems with people. He’s a fucking gobshite who thinks that he’s always right and can’t be corrected. He also seems to have quite a high level of self entitlement. Fuck him, I wouldn’t bother if I was you. [/QUOTE] :smack: The scales have fallen from my eyes. Thank you, brother. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/151 "2008-03-05T12:05:00Z")
[QUOTE=GomiBoy] . I think **Angua** and **Chowder** got that it was a bit tongue in cheek What? you weren’t serious? Dagnabbit 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/152 "2008-03-05T12:14:39Z")
[QUOTE=yojimbo] I think I can see a possible reason why **GomiBoy** had some problems with people. He’s a fucking gobshite who thinks that he’s always right and can’t be corrected. He also seems to have quite a high level of self entitlement. Fuck him, I wouldn’t bother if I was you. [/QUOTE] Since you can’t debate the arguments, attack the person right? ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/153 "2008-03-05T12:20:42Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! That’s the mountains of Spain crying, why are you being nasty to our mountains? There, there… (Andorra has better mountains than we do, but don’t tell ours) [/QUOTE] There there, I didn’t mean to insult Spanish mountains. I have loved nearly all of my travels to Spain and it’s mountains (except one business trip to Madrid, and that was solely because the work sucked everything else was great!). The Pyrennes are great! I know the mountains are lovely, and I know the skiing is good. I’m so sorry, I didn’t mean to insult anyone but the French and a slowly growing list of assholes. 😃 You Latins are so bloody sensitive. Forget to be nice to them one little time… grumble grumble ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/154 "2008-03-05T12:22:00Z")
[QUOTE=FarmerChick] GomiBoy, I for one have enjoyed your rant immensely! Fuck the French! Fuck the Fun Police too! Fuck Logic, it’s a rant! [/QUOTE] [puts another notch in the ‘gets it’ column] ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/155 "2008-03-05T12:23:49Z")
[QUOTE=GomiBoy] Since you can’t debate the arguments, attack the person right? [/QUOTE] That would work, if the whole thing wasn’t about people, and their interactions - which it is, and was from the very start. This thread started out by diving right in at the deep end of Ad Hominem - it’s a little late to be trying to turn it into a scholarly discussion. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/156 "2008-03-05T12:26:23Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] That would work, if the whole thing wasn’t about people, and their interactions - which it is, and was from the very start. This thread started out by diving right in at the deep end of Ad Hominem - it’s a little late to be trying to turn it into a scholarly discussion. [/QUOTE] Scholarly discussion in The Pit? :dubious: Come, come old chap ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/157 "2008-03-05T12:26:49Z")
[QUOTE=GomiBoy] Since you can’t debate the arguments, attack the person right? [/QUOTE] There is no debate. You’re a gobshite, of that there is no doubt. Since you only argue your POV and not the actual words that were posted there’s no point in that debate either. Also as you have said, this is the PIT. I don’t have to debate. I can however insult your opinions and on-line personality. You are making that quite easy I have to say. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/158 "2008-03-05T12:30:49Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] Scholarly discussion in The Pit? :dubious: Come, come old chap [/QUOTE] Well, exactly, which makes it just plain stupid to be bleating about ad hominem. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/159 "2008-03-05T12:48:18Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] That would work, if the whole thing wasn’t about people, and their interactions - which it is, and was from the very start. This thread started out by diving right in at the deep end of Ad Hominem - it’s a little late to be trying to turn it into a scholarly discussion. [/QUOTE] So let me see: 1. I have a little rant. I enjoy it, and bat around some statements with others both serious and satirical. Others apparently enjoy it as well. Whilst at it’s core is some real frustration and anger, in the main it’s meant to be humorous. 2. Some people come along ( **ascenray** , **jjimm** , **labrador deceiver** , **liberal** ) who decide that it’s not funny, don’t enjoy it, or don’t get it, and proceed to shit all over the rant by personally attacking me, calling me all sorts of names and pointing out “holes” in the arguments of an essentially emotional rant 3. I attempt to deny that the ‘holes’ are actually holes, clarify that it was in fact intended as a slightly humorous rant, identify the things I actually do believe for the record not once but twice, get further personally attacked from a fresh source not previously engaged in the discussion both off-topic and ad hominem ( **yojimbo** ) 4. I call **Yojimbo** on his weak insult as the meaningless spew that it is, which is apparently me bleating about something being unfair. Sorry, how’s that last one go again? I’m certainly not attempting to turn this into a scholarly discussion, especially not here of all places - you wrestle with pigs and all you get is muddy. And I’m not asking for civility - I posted in the Pit because I wanted to rant. I wanted to insult people who disagreed. I even wanted to be insulted back. Because it’s entertaining, which in the end is why most people go online to places like this, and because it helps me blow off my frustrations. YMMV. Oh, and **Yojimbo** - insult away, cousin. My persona ain’t me, and I know you’re unable to actually argue on merit, so it’s all water off a duck’s back as far as I’m concerned. But don’t expect me or anyone else to take you seriously if you can’t marshal a reasonable argument with or without the capacity to insult people personally, you pathetic wanker. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931/160 "2008-03-05T13:13:37Z")
Forget the rant and the blowback. What’s important is the skiing. Tell us about the skiing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-france-and-fuck-the-french/439931.md?page=9)