# Fuck Hamas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867 "2008-12-27T19:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/281 "2008-12-28T19:57:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because the moment we stop being strong, we’re dead. I can assure you that my nation’s conquerors will not be nearly as polite as yours. Thinking that it would be a very bad thing if I were laid off doesn’t mean that it won’t ever happen to me. Your post doesn’t answer my question. Israel is a small country, with a small population, surrounded by larger countries whose populations at least are very hostile (even when the governments currently in place aren’t), and who won’t forever lag long behind economically, technologically, militarily. If you think that given the current situation, you’re as good as dead the day you stop being the strongest, wouldn’t trying to find a long-lasting solution while you still have the upper hand make more sense than stating basically in a previous post : “we’ll keep hitting them harder than they hit us until they give up”? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/282 "2008-12-28T20:06:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > (Well, not really, since I have no particular desire to go to Israel, let alone to prove a point) Hey, my couch folds out. I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/283 "2008-12-28T20:55:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > For what it’s worth, let me state for the record that \*I \*do not believe that all Europeans and/or people who criticize Israel are antisemites Thanks. I know you do, but the broad brushes being weilded was kinda insulting. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > And Europe would be very different today than it is. Why do people act like this didn’t happen? Is it because SOME Americans get all haughty about “hey, we saved your asses back in dubya-dubya Two!” or something? Precisely. being Swedish, I don’t have a lot of national pride in our role in WWII, but it’s a bit too easy to say that the U.S. saved Europe. As you point out, it was an allied effort where the U.S. played a crucial part. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/284 "2008-12-28T20:55:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hey, my couch folds out. > > I’m just sayin’. That’s very kind of you and maybe some time in the future I’ll feel tempted to see some Jewish holy sites, but for some reason I’m much more attracted to Canadian battle-sites in western Europe. One day I’ll start at Juno and head east. ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/285 "2008-12-28T22:00:51Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > And Europe would be very different today than it is. Why do people act like this didn’t happen? Is it because SOME Americans get all haughty about “hey, we saved your asses back in dubya-dubya Two!” or something? And the US may well be very different today if the French hadn’t “saved your arses” a couple of centuries back. So does that make you even with them now or…? As the other phrase goes, “the US are trying to make up for being late for the first two world wars by starting the third one early”. Sorry, that last phrase is one that got bounced around a lot as a laugh with some friends in the US years ago now…it’s one that always just makes me chuckle when these sort of discussions come around again 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/286 "2008-12-28T23:34:50Z")
> [@grey\_ideas](#): > > And the US may well be very different today if the French hadn’t “saved your arses” a couple of centuries back. Ya, cause then you’d have had universal health care a long time ago,gay marraige all over and lots and lots of oil and fresh water. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/287 "2008-12-29T00:27:33Z")
> [@grey\_ideas](#): > > And the US may well be very different today if the French hadn’t “saved your arses” a couple of centuries back. So does that make you even with them now or…? > > As the other phrase goes, “the US are trying to make up for being late for the first two world wars by starting the third one early”. Sorry, that last phrase is one that got bounced around a lot as a laugh with some friends in the US years ago now…it’s one that always just makes me chuckle when these sort of discussions come around again 😃 Well, sure but…what of it? I don’t brag on the USA. We’ve done some good, done some bad, just like every other country. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/288 "2008-12-29T00:50:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They are capable of none **without real inducement,** and not the kind provided by bombing; that just stokes their extremism and hatred. Bombing is a wonderful inducement for rational, levelheaded people. Alas, these people appear to be irrational. If bombing only upsets them more, then there’s really no hope that they’ll “see the light.” So many posters on this board want an intellectual, hippie, “feel-good” solution for all conflicts. It’s great when it works. But when it doesn’t work, Plan B is in order. To end certain conflicts, some people \*need \*to die. In this case, Hamas needs to die. Will there be collateral damage? Will innocents die? Perhaps. But if it means eliminating Hamas, it would be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/289 "2008-12-29T00:51:08Z")
That’s exactly the reasoning Hamas uses. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/290 "2008-12-29T00:54:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s exactly the reasoning Hamas uses. Who cares what reasoning they’re using? We are right; they are wrong. It’s based on absolutes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/291 "2008-12-29T00:56:49Z")
I guess now we have to Pit the [Egyptians](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5grmpk18UVAYzqu4fu2F0eNh8QIgA) too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/292 "2008-12-29T00:57:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s exactly the reasoning Hamas uses. And it hasn’t ever worked despite several years of application so why do you think they persist in it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/293 "2008-12-29T01:10:45Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Who cares what reasoning they’re using? We are right; they are wrong. It’s based on absolutes. That’s exactly what they say. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/294 "2008-12-29T01:11:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And it hasn’t ever worked despite several years of application so why do you think they persist in it? Israeli apartheid isn’t working either. Why do they persist in it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/295 "2008-12-29T01:34:25Z")
Because the likeliest alternatives (letting Hamas and similar groups operate unfettered; driving all Palestinians out of disputed territories) are worse. Hamas’s likeliest alternative, peaceful negotiation, remains essentially untried. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/296 "2008-12-29T01:37:05Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Hey, I have an idea: Maybe Israel should drag all Jewish settlers out of Gaza. That ought to make Hamas happy and encourage them to be less hostile. > > Heck, the Jewish settlers could leave their greenhouses intact as a gesture of goodwill towards the folks remaining in Gaza. A gesture that is sure to be returned. It’s value as a goodwill gesture is likely to be poisoned by re-locating those settlers in the West Bank. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/297 "2008-12-29T01:39:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because the moment we stop being strong, we’re dead. I can assure you that my nation’s conquerors will not be nearly as polite as yours. More of the Hamas = the holocaust rhetoric. Exactly as predicted, without this narrative Israelis wouldn’t be nearly so degraded. Avram/Abraham Burg had a recent article on this. looking … [http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-burg16-2008nov16,0,1029195.story](http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-burg16-2008nov16,0,1029195.story) > [@](#): > > Few people in Israel are willing to try to perceive reality through a different set of conceptual lenses other than those of extermination and defensive isolation. Few are willing to try on the glasses of understanding and of hope for dialogue. Instead, the question is always: Is a second Shoah on the way? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/298 "2008-12-29T01:43:19Z")
Doesn’t some of Hamas’s own literature invoke some very holocaust-like imagery? If it’s merely symbolic, let them drop it. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/299 "2008-12-29T01:50:01Z")
More: **Holocaust’s Unholy Hold** > [@](#): > > … Regardless of whether the question at hand is of the future relations between Israel and our Palestinian neighbors in specific and the Arab world in general, or of the Iranian atomic threat and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, it always comes down to the same conversation. Every threat or grievance of major or minor importance is dealt with automatically by raising the biggest argument of them all – the Shoah – and from that moment onward, every discussion is disrupted. > [@](#): > > What does the primacy of the Shoah mean in terms of our politics and policy? His analysis is wrong though. As with every other instance in history, that myth of extermination is the foundation of present atrocities. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/300 "2008-12-29T01:55:13Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > It’s value as a goodwill gesture is likely to be poisoned by re-locating those settlers in the West Bank. Or Golan. Or Jerusalem. Or Haifa. Or Tel Aviv. > [@](#): > > Hamas’ charter calls for the destruction of the State of Israel and its replacement with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip > [@](#): > > "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867.md?page=16)