# Fuck Hamas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867 "2008-12-27T19:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/301 "2008-12-29T01:55:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Doesn’t some of Hamas’s own literature invoke some very holocaust-like imagery? If it’s merely symbolic, let them drop it. I recall correcting you on this very issue recently. When it comes to ‘dropping it’ there are no illusions that Israelis/supporters will cede a syllable of it here or anywhere. This narrative and its associated chapters: - 'only democracy in …" - 'Israel lay down its arms …" - &etc are too central to the identity and policies for any frank reference to the lack of evidence. As noted before this spiral of baseless myth cannot go well. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/302 "2008-12-29T02:03:00Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Bombing is a wonderful inducement for rational, levelheaded people. Since when ? Historically, even massive bombing hasn’t done anything but make people angrier and more determined. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > To end certain conflicts, some people \*need \*to die. In this case, Hamas needs to die. Will there be collateral damage? Will innocents die? Perhaps. But if it means eliminating Hamas, it would be worth it. And they’ll just be replaced by someone else at least as hostile, as long as neither side wants peace, and both sides obsessively assault each other. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/303 "2008-12-29T02:03:35Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > I recall correcting you on this very issue recently. You must have been wrong because it didn’t take. > [@](#): > > For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies… So, is that from the Hamas charter or _Mein Kampf_? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/304 "2008-12-29T02:06:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So, is that from the Hamas charter or _Mein Kampf_? Or the Republican Party ? Or half the more extreme political movements out there. Including Israeli ones I’m sure. I can just see the Republicans inserting “homosexuals” or “socialists” in that quote. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/305 "2008-12-29T02:09:39Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Or Golan. Or Jerusalem. Or Haifa. Or Tel Aviv. In YHO? Made those quotes up all on your own? How about ‘If Hamas lays down its arms …’, - one of yours as you claimed earlier? It’s a bit of a signature move there; quote someone else’s text without acknowledgment. I’d look into that, people might ask questions, say in a more scientifically based discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/306 "2008-12-29T02:11:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You must have been wrong because it didn’t take… On this point, you have become less receptive to reason than you were then. It is only possible to speculate as to why. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/307 "2008-12-29T02:16:17Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > In YHO? > > Made those quotes up all on your own? Nope, got them from Wikipedia: > **[Hamas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas)** > > The Islamic Resistance Movement, abbreviated Hamas\[a\] (an acronym from the Arabic: حركة المقاومة الإسلامية, romanized: Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah),\[b\] is a Sunni Islamist Palestinian nationalist political organisation with a military wing known as the al-Qassam Brigades. It has governed the Israeli-occupied Gaza Strip since 2007. > The Hamas movement was founded by Palestinian Islamic scholar Ahmed Yassin in 1987 after the outbreak of the First Intifada against the Israeli occupation. ... > [@](#): > > Hamas’ charter calls for the destruction of the State of Israel and its replacement with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip > > * * * > > The Hamas charter states: “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad,” * * * > [@](#): > > I’d look into that, people might ask questions, say in a more scientifically based discussion. Sure, they might ask me to provide a link. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/308 "2008-12-29T02:19:26Z")
and now; how do you make the leap from ‘destruction of the state of Israel’ to Holocaust? That’s assuming the Wiki description to be true. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/309 "2008-12-29T02:25:50Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > and now; how do you make the leap from ‘destruction of the state of Israel’ to Holocaust? 😕 I assume this question is not directed at me. As far as I can remember, I haven’t mentioned a “Holocaust” in this thread. > [@](#): > > That’s assuming the Wiki description to be true. Sure, because maybe the same folks who control the world media and who provoked the French revolution are also tricking everyone about Hamas’ agenda. Actually Hamas just wants to sell girl scout cookies. Kosher girl scout cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/310 "2008-12-29T02:26:50Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Ireland didn’t do anything in WWII, why start now? Actually we did. We were officially neutral (to the point that we offered condolences for Hitler’s death), but we weren’t really neutral, we were just trying to establish our independance of Britain, and we were still trying to hold ourselves together as a small, fractured country with deep political wounds. Thousands of Irish men joined the British Army and died fighting (My own great-grand uncle died in WWI), they didn’t have to, but they did. When German fighter planes crashed in Ireland, the pilots were held in custody until the end of the war. Allied pilots all ‘escaped’ across the border to the North. When Belfast was bombed, firetrucks from all over Ireland went there to help fight the blazes and help save lives (no acknowledgement was ever given btw). For more see: [Irish neutrality during World War II - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neutrality_during_World_War_II#The_Cranborne_report) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/311 "2008-12-29T02:51:29Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > On this point, you have become less receptive to reason than you were then. It is only possible to speculate as to why. I honestly have no recollection about you being right about, well, anything. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/312 "2008-12-29T03:17:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I would be fine. Don’t believe everything you read on the internet. Alright DtC, I’m calling you on your bullshit, right here, right now. I can in no way afford it, but I’m willing to trade in some stocks I’m not fully vested in right now, and borrow a couple of thousand bucks from my folks to do it. I am completely serious. I will pay your way to Israel, along with my way. When we get there I will create a great big sign in Hebrew saying “Killing Palestinian Children is Wrong” and march up and down in front of the Knesset for 5 days, 8 hours a day, non-stop. At the same time, I expect you to create a great big sign in Arabic saying “Killing Israeli Children is Wrong” and march up and down in front of whatever Hamas is using as an HQ now. Frankly, I doubt that the IDF would allow you to do it, but I’ll work hard to convince them to allow you. Are you willing to bet your life, and your wife and kid’s chances of having a husband and father on that? I’ll bet my wife and kids AND MY LIFE on Israel allowing me to demonstrate, will you do the same with Hamas? I am completely serious with this offer, will you take me up on it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/313 "2008-12-29T03:34:12Z")
I would actually do it if I didn’t have 3 small kids, including a newborn at home. I basically, just logistically can’t take off on my family right now. I’d do it just for the free trip to Israel (the place in the world I’d most like to visit). but life isn’t that simple for me right now, and my wife isn’t going to go along with me leaving her without childcare to prove some stupid internet point. Believe me, it isn’t fear. I think the suggestion that I would be in any danger is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/314 "2008-12-29T04:01:52Z")
That’s an interesting proposition **Weirddave**. I’m inclined to think that \*\*Diogenes \*\*would probably be all right. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/315 "2008-12-29T04:48:23Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I’m inclined to think that \*\*Diogenes \*\*would probably be all right. Based on… what? Hamas kidnaps and tortures those in Gaza they believe aren’t political allies. Their thugs can beat the shit out of you for ‘non-Islamic dress’. Palestinians who are even suspected of “collaboration” are routinely killed. Last November, Hamas opened fire on a group of Fatah protesters, killing several. And so on, and so on, and so on. If **Dio** wasn’t killed or mauled, it would at almost definitely because of the propaganda hit that Hamas would take for an unarmed American getting murdered by Hamas ‘security’ forces. What if the signs were changed to “I’m an Arab and I support Palestine.” and “I’m a Jew and I support Israel.”? Do you think that **Dave** or **Dio** would be proven to be full of shit about the inherently decent civil society of one of the two factions? Two people in civilian dress, in an Israeli car, drove into Ramallah in 2000. Do you think **Dio** would end up worse or better with a big ol’ sign claiming he was a Jew and supported Israel? All that being said, although it would be satisfying on a certain cosmic level to see folks like him put their ramblings to the test against reality, I hope that **Dio** never actually puts his stupidity and asinine stubbornness to the test. Even people here who realize that he’s an intellectual bottom feeder still (I’d hope) don’t want to see him get torn limb from limb by a mob because he was a big enough idiot as to walk into Gaza displaying anything that was vaguely pro-Israel. Sometimes while it may be fun to let some jackass play “I can too prove to y’all that I can walk right up to the polar bear and punch him in the nose!”, it’s generally not the moral path to unlock the gate to the polar bear cage for him. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/316 "2008-12-29T04:54:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I would actually do it if I didn’t have 3 small kids, including a newborn at home. I basically, just logistically can’t take off on my family right now. I’d do it just for the free trip to Israel (the place in the world I’d most like to visit). but life isn’t that simple for me right now, and my wife isn’t going to go along with me leaving her without childcare to prove some stupid internet point. > > Believe me, it isn’t fear. I think the suggestion that I would be in any danger is ridiculous. And I have a toddler who is my world. Blah, blah, blah. Nevertheless, I gave you the chance to put your money…actually, MY money…where your big fat mouth is, and you declined. I suspect that you know that walking around in front of Hamas HQ (I realize there is no such thing) with a sign in Arabic saying “Killing Israeli Children is Wrong” would not be a course of action that would tend to lend itself to your long term survival and return to your kids that you love so much. OTOH, I could march in front of the Knesset 8 hours a day, 5 days a week until Gabriel blows his horn and I’d be perfectly safe. THAT’S THE DIFFERENCE, ASSHOLE. I gave you the opportunity to go and do what you claim so stridently is right. You chickened out. It’s important to have the courage of you convictions, but in your case your convictions are those of a coward. Well done, coward, well done. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/317 "2008-12-29T05:06:33Z")
Dude, I’m not going to ditch my family responsibilities to prove a point to some moron on the internet. Think whatever you want. The notion that I would have the slightest fear is laughable to me, though. I’m not a chickenshit who pisses down my leg at the mere sight of an Arab like you apparently are. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/318 "2008-12-29T05:27:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Dude, I’m not going to ditch my family responsibilities to prove a point to some moron on the internet. Think whatever you want. The notion that I would have the slightest fear is laughable to me, though. I’m not a chickenshit who pisses down my leg at the mere sight of an Arab like you apparently are. So take me up on it. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/319 "2008-12-29T05:30:27Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > So take me up on it. It’s that simple. I don’t have the ability to take you up on it. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/320 "2008-12-29T05:48:41Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > Thousands of Irish men joined the British Army and died fighting (My own great-grand uncle died in WWI), they didn’t have to, but they did. > > When German fighter planes crashed in Ireland, the pilots were held in custody until the end of the war. Allied pilots all ‘escaped’ across the border to the North. Up to 60,000 did, my Grandfather fought in Burma. That’s not including those who worked on the land and in the merchant navy. This is all beside the point though as our neutrality during WWII was a political necessity if the newly formed State, still recovery from a Civil War, was to continue to exist. The clueless jingoistic cunt should just be ignored. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867.md?page=17)