# Fuck Hamas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867 "2008-12-27T19:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/41 "2008-12-27T22:08:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because Hamas is not interested in peace with Israel. Hamas is not interested in ending the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians with Israel still in existance. Hamas has nothing to offer Israel. Why should Israel treat with them? Because they are not going away and cannot be marginalized. You don’t have to make your enemies love you before you can treat with them. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/42 "2008-12-27T22:09:33Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > IMO, Israel should have wiped them out a long time ago. Not sure why they’ve pussy-footed around. I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to know more of this Final Solution. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/43 "2008-12-27T22:16:28Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > So either declare war on Israel and get your ass kicked, or do something that might actually advance your cause like a non-violent work stoppage and boycott, but this practice of lobbing rockets at Israel along with the occasional suicide bombing has got to stop. Really, do you think this helps anyone? Do you expect Israel to sit by and let themselves be the target of rockets? > > I think the Palestinians have a good argument, but their tactics suck big time. Well, on the other hand, it does give much of the racial hatred in the US an opportunity to vent openly. And such opportunities are rarer these days. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/44 "2008-12-27T22:16:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Because they are not going away and cannot be marginalized. You don’t have to make your enemies love you before you can treat with them. No, but you can make them fear you. Or if no other choice remains, you can make them _die_. And besides, we’re not going away, either, and we certainly can’t be marginalized. How about you tell them what you just told me? Understand something - I’ve lived with the conflict my whole life, I can keep on living with it, and so can my children. The Palestinians don’t want peace? Let them suffer. Let them suffer more than we’re suffering. I can live with that just fine. Eventually they’ll \*sue \*for peace… or not, in which case, they’ll just keep on suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/45 "2008-12-27T22:18:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Because they are not going away and cannot be marginalized. You don’t have to make your enemies love you before you can treat with them. So if Hamas and Israel agree to a peace deal, and a week later a few rockets are lobbed into Israel, what does Israel do? ETA: How on earth isn’t that anti-semitic tool **Sevastopol** banned yet? Amazing. And to be even handed, **DanBlather** and **Bosda** are both fuckwits too. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/46 "2008-12-27T22:19:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Since it’s obvious by now that Hamas **is not going away and can’t be marginalized,** why won’t the Israelis just treat with them, and promise to accept the results of any election that returns a Hamas government for the PA? It’s hard to get the negotiations underway, and harder to keep the principal actors alive long enough to remain in charge until some kind of settlement is reached. It’s worked in Northern Ireland (Fucking hell, Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley sitting down for a cuppa and actually seeming to get on well together) but it took decades of back-door conversations. In NI at least there’s not much territorial dispute - the Palestinians and the Israelis need ruthless men who will agree on borders and be willing to enforce them, regardless of the wishes of segments of their own constituencies. That’s going to be hard, really, really hard. Add to this the buy-in required from some of the surrounding states and well, good luck guys. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/47 "2008-12-27T22:20:09Z")
The entire argument is fucking retarded. We know the following. 1. Israel isn’t going anywhere. 2. Hamas is going to continue to be a douche bag centric organization. 3. Palestinians have a valid argument. 4. Jews have a valid argument. The Palestinians need to get their shit together and put hamas down themselves, recognizing that Hamas only exists to feed the fire. Once Hamas (and the other extremist, violent factions) are put down, Palestine needs to come to the bargaining table and say “We want our land, we want it now.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/48 "2008-12-27T22:20:13Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > So either declare war on Israel and get your ass kicked, or do something that might actually advance your cause like a non-violent work stoppage and boycott, but this practice of lobbing rockets at Israel along with the occasional suicide bombing has got to stop. Really, do you think this helps anyone? Do you expect Israel to sit by and let themselves be the target of rockets? Actually, I expect that Hamas expected what it got; a greatly disproportionate response that makes Israel look indiscriminately murderous and produces martyrs, and more support for Hamas. As for my view of the situation; I think both sides are dominated by thugs and fanatics, and I see little to admire about either. I don’t believe that either side is all that interested in peace. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/49 "2008-12-27T22:21:19Z")
The peace-loving Israeli government was _forced_ to kill hundreds of people because otherwise a tiny percentage of Palestinians might continue to lob rockets that don’t kill or injure anyone. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/50 "2008-12-27T22:22:44Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > … > The primary cause of Hamas is to follow the tenets of their interpretation of their religion, which includes no accomadation with the Jews and strive for their destruction. … People with an interest in history often inquire how whole societies come to take part in frank evil. The studied answer is the same in each case: It begins with a story of imminent and unchangeable malevolence towards them. This is why it is important for rw Israelis to spread the falsehoods quoted above. Without that narrative it would not be possible to brutalise Israeli society and its supporters into the planned shape. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/51 "2008-12-27T22:24:06Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > The peace-loving Israeli government was _forced_ to kill hundreds of people because otherwise a tiny percentage of Palestinians might continue to lob rockets that don’t kill or injure anyone. Obviously. Do you mind if I lob a few rockets in your general direction? After all, they won’t kill or injure you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/52 "2008-12-27T22:24:33Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > So if Hamas and Israel agree to a peace deal, and a week later a few rockets are lobbed into Israel, what does Israel do? Attack a bunch of people they label ‘Hamas’ and start it over again. Assuming that some Israeli fanatic doesn’t shoot a bunch of Palestinians and kick things off first. As long as both sides are so easily jerked around by their fanatics, ending the fighting is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/53 "2008-12-27T22:26:44Z")
Yeah, very productive. Neither side really wants peace, pity the shmucks on both sides can’t just duke it out and get it over with. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/54 "2008-12-27T22:27:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Understand something - I’ve lived with the conflict my whole life, I can keep on living with it, and so can my children. The Palestinians don’t want peace? Let them suffer. Let them suffer more than we’re suffering. I can live with that just fine. Eventually they’ll \*sue \*for peace… or not, in which case, they’ll just keep on suffering. Oh man, that’s really sad. There’s nothing but hate and pain and death down this road. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/55 "2008-12-27T22:29:05Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > It’s hard to get the negotiations underway, and harder to keep the principal actors alive long enough to remain in charge until some kind of settlement is reached. It’s worked in Northern Ireland (Fucking hell, Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley sitting down for a cuppa and actually seeming to get on well together) but it took decades of back-door conversations. In NI at least there’s not much territorial dispute - the Palestinians and the Israelis need ruthless men who will agree on borders and be willing to enforce them, regardless of the wishes of segments of their own constituencies. That’s going to be hard, really, really hard. Add to this the buy-in required from some of the surrounding states and well, good luck guys. The key difference between the two conflicts is that the IRA never set as its goal the liberation of London. If any leading Irish nationalist had ever stated that his organization’s ultimate goal was to drive all Anglo-Saxons off Celtic soil - \*any \*Celtic soil - not only would there be no peace, but the Brits would still be in Dublin. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/56 "2008-12-27T22:29:20Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Do you mind if I lob a few rockets in your general direction? After all, they won’t kill or injure you. Actually, not many were killed or injured, as compared to the results of the Israeli attack. That’s what makes it disproportionate, and such great propaganda fodder for Hamas. It’s as if some Black Panther during the 60’s civil rights conflict had shot a cop, and the cops reacted by driving through black neighborhoods indiscriminately spraying the crowds and buildings with gunfire. Who would have come across looking better ? ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/57 "2008-12-27T22:29:37Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Neither side really wants peace, pity the shmucks on both sides can’t just duke it out and get it over with. Yeah, those fuckers trying to live a life and raise kids don’t want to be able to have their kids go to school without their school bus being blown up! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/58 "2008-12-27T22:29:54Z")
> [@mudkicker](#): > > Casdave, people/nations can ‘choose not to hear the bugle call’ because they are pacifists, because they can’t afford the massive amount of money needed for a war, or because they’re not poodles who roll over and copy everything another country does. Ireland had and has every right to stay neutral in any conflict, just as Britain had and has every right not to. As for sucking your dick, my gob may be big enough, but I doubt your dick is. **mudkicker** , I don’t believe **casdave** was talking about Ireland when he mentioned taking two years to hear a bugle call. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/59 "2008-12-27T22:31:05Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > Oh man, that’s really sad. There’s nothing but hate and pain and death down this road. I’d love to see peace in my lifetime. I just no longer believe it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867/60 "2008-12-27T22:32:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, but you can make them fear you. Or if no other choice remains, you can make them _die_. > > And besides, we’re not going away, either, and we certainly can’t be marginalized. How about you tell them what you just told me? > > Understand something - I’ve lived with the conflict my whole life, I can keep on living with it, and so can my children. The Palestinians don’t want peace? Let them suffer. Let them suffer more than we’re suffering. I can live with that just fine. Eventually they’ll \*sue \*for peace… or not, in which case, they’ll just keep on suffering. The options I mentioned in post #36 are the only realistic alternatives to the intolerable status quo – unless you can think of another? Didn’t think so. So why won’t Israel, or you, seriously consider either? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hamas/478867.md?page=4)