# Fuck Harry Reid! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694 "2010-02-12T12:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/201 "2010-02-14T01:04:45Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Oh, BTW **culture** , you do deserve sort of an honorable mention for actually giving an opinion on the JOBS bill. Every other conservative here\* seems to be concerned with absolutely nothing beyond how far they can cut their own personal tax bill by holding the nation’s unemployed hostage to their greed. > They _talk_ about how horrible the deficit is, but what actually gets their blood pumping is the prospect of further, deeper tax cuts. The consequent larger deficits seem unimportant to them. Oh, Mister I’m So Interested In Having a Discussion, you still haven’t answered the questions posted to you in Post #7: [QUOTE=magellan01] This “fair share” nonsense it peddled around here incessantly. Can you please tell me what you think this “fair share” is? Just how much more should the government go into the pocket of someone making $200,000 than someone making $40,000? How many more days out of a year should the person who makes more earn money have to work on the government’s behalf? And just how is that “fair”? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/202 "2010-02-14T01:36:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How is any of this any of your business anyway? You’re not even an American, so none of it affects you in the slightest. Instead of worrying about Estate Taxes in the US, maybe you should focus on trying to build a luge run that doesn’t kill people. Really? That’s the comeback? But you bring up a good point. See, here in Canada we don’t have an estate tax at all. So really, I should be encouraging this bit of idiocy, because it’s just one more thing that will push America’s best and brightest our way - along with their investment money. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/203 "2010-02-14T01:43:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, Mister I’m So Interested In Having a Discussion, you still haven’t answered the questions posted to you in Post #7: That’s a _tax_ question. The bill is a _Jobs_ bill. You need to go let that little chubby you’ve got for tax cuts deflate for a while. While you’re waiting, maybe you can come up with a plan to pay off what you and your friends owe the country for that little Iraq misadventure. Until that happens, I’m prepared to just say no to tax cuts for you louses. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/204 "2010-02-14T01:53:52Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > That’s a _tax_ question. The bill is a _Jobs_ bill. > You need to go let that little chubby you’ve got for tax cuts deflate for a while. > > While you’re waiting, maybe you can come up with a plan to pay off what you and your friends owe the country for that little Iraq misadventure. Until that happens, I’m prepared to just say no to tax cuts for you louses. You brought it up. In Post 6. Here it is: [QUOTE=Squink] If Republicans want to get on board anything besides not paying their fair share of taxes, they’re welcome to contribute to the new bill. [/QUOTE] I asked you a question that went directly to your statement. You’ve refused to answer now, after about 150 posts. So let me ask you again: [QUOTE=magellan01] This “fair share” nonsense it peddled around here incessantly. Can you please tell me what you think this “fair share” is? Just how much more should the government go into the pocket of someone making $200,000 than someone making $40,000? How many more days out of a year should the person who makes more earn money have to work on the government’s behalf? And just how is that “fair”? [/QUOTE] Man up, Squirt. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/205 "2010-02-14T02:05:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Really? That’s the comeback? > > But you bring up a good point. See, here in Canada we don’t have an estate tax at all. So really, I should be encouraging this bit of idiocy, because it’s just one more thing that will push America’s best and brightest our way - along with their investment money. I won’t do it. Neither of you can make me. I will NOT read an entire CBO report. I did, however, check the points that seemed to be disputed, and Sam is right. For example, from the preface: > [@](#): > > This Congressional Budget Office (CBO) paper—prepared at the request of the Ranking Democratic Member of the Senate Finance Committee—examines the effects of the estate tax on small businesses and family farms, focusing on how it might alter the behavior of farmers and small-business owners during their lives and on the extent to which their estates have enough liquid assets to pay the estate taxes owed. The paper also looks at the impact on those groups of setting the amount of assets exempt from the estate tax at $1.5 million, $2 million, or $3.5 million. And table 8 says what Sam says it does, including that the 138 was for farms only, and I also went back at great expense and checked how the exchange progressed in this thread and Sam didn’t shift the discussion from or back to farms. He may or may not be Canadian, though. I have no evidence either way. There, I hope you’re both happy now. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/206 "2010-02-14T02:09:38Z")
My apologies for making you read the bloody thing (the report AND the exchange). I know you’ll never be the same again. But thanks for saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/207 "2010-02-14T02:11:27Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > My apologies for making you read the bloody thing (the report AND the exchange). I know you’ll never be the same again. But thanks for saying that. No sweat. I just hope I don’t have flashbacks now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/208 "2010-02-14T02:21:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Thanks for doing this. > > Every single thing **Sam Stone** posts needs to be fact-checked; he is routinely deceptive and deceitful. You keep saying that, and I keep slapping you down every time you try to ‘prove’ it. Are you ever going to learn? By the way, the guy you’re high-fiving is Mr. “Ronald Reagan Quadrupled the Debt”, and Mr. “1% of the population owns 99% of the wealth”, so historical accuracy isn’t exactly his strong suit (or yours). Next time, before tossing around high-fives about ‘fact-checking’ me, you might want to wait and see which way the hammer falls, lest you wind up looking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![culture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@culture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/culture)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/209 "2010-02-14T02:26:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How is any of this any of your business anyway? You’re not even an American, so none of it affects you in the slightest. Instead of worrying about Estate Taxes in the US, maybe you should focus on trying to build a luge run that doesn’t kill people. OK, that is a pretty pathetic response, and is not worthy of someone who has been on this board as long as you have. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/210 "2010-02-14T02:29:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I asked you a question that went directly to your statement. Only if you’re a tax cut obsessed idiot. ‘Anything’ does not refer to some _other_ crazy tax cut scheme. It refers to a useful addition to a Jobs bill. Get it? **Jobs** , that’s what the bill is about, not payoffs for pubbies. I’ve no interest in talking about how much you would like to get more money back on your tax return. In fact I’d like you to get considerably _less_ back on your tax return until you pay off your debt on the Iraq war. Still, if you have useful ideas for stimulating job growth, I suggest you write your senator, and encourage him to act on them, rather than just sitting around crying like a whiny ass titty baby because he didn’t get his yearly fix of taxcuts for the wealthy. John McCain failed to get elected president _over a year ago_. Isn’t it about time for an end to the party wide temper tantrum? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/211 "2010-02-14T02:45:26Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I won’t do it. Neither of you can make me. I will NOT read an entire CBO report. I did, however, check the points that seemed to be disputed, and Sam is right. For example, from the preface:And table 8 says what Sam says it does, including that the 138 was for farms only, and I also went back at great expense and checked how the exchange progressed in this thread and Sam didn’t shift the discussion from or back to farms. He may or may not be Canadian, though. I have no evidence either way. > > There, I hope you’re both happy now. The part you quoted doesn’t contradict anything I said. It does measure the potential impact of those figures at $1.5 million, $2 million and $3.5 million. (as I said upthread), and it says those figures would all substantially REDUCE the number of affected estates. Farms is all that matters, since that’s all we were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![culture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@culture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/culture)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/212 "2010-02-14T02:48:05Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Only if you’re a tax cut obsessed idiot. ‘Anything’ does not refer to some _other_ crazy tax cut scheme. It refers to a useful addition to a Jobs bill. > Get it? **Jobs** , that’s what the bill is about, not payoffs for pubbies. > I’ve no interest in talking about how much you would like to get more money back on your tax return. In fact I’d like you to get considerably _less_ back on your tax return until you pay off your debt on the Iraq war. > Still, if you have useful ideas for stimulating job growth, I suggest you write your senator, and encourage him to act on them, rather than just sitting around crying like a whiny ass titty baby because he didn’t get his yearly fix of taxcuts for the wealthy. > John McCain failed to get elected president _over a year ago_. Isn’t it about time for an end to the party wide temper tantrum? Squink my man, I am going to make an educated guess here and you tell me how close I am to correct: You are very intelligent, performing well in school and also on standardize testing such as the SAT. You probably have a significantly higher than average IQ as measured by accepted IQ test. You are well read, and probably (I am less certain here) have an advanced degree in something. Your income is in the second to third quintile. You are convinced that you are not paid near as much as you should be based on your intelligence. You believe that as an education major (or something similar), you are clearly worth as much or more than an MBA, doctor or lawyer. You resent the fact that you are not paid on par with these professions. If your profession is unionized, you are in it. Am I close? I freely admit I could be completely wrong, but I think I have a greater than 50% chance of being mostly correct. You are one angry person. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/213 "2010-02-14T02:52:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The part you quoted doesn’t contradict anything I said. It does measure the potential impact of those figures at $1.5 million, $2 million and $3.5 million. (as I said upthread), and it says those figures would all substantially REDUCE the number of affected estates. > > Farms is all that matters, since that’s all we were talking about. Well done. Consider those goalposts moved completely out of sight. Now can you stamp your feet and pout, completing the picture I’ve got in my mind? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/214 "2010-02-14T02:59:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You keep saying that, and I keep slapping you down every time you try to ‘prove’ it. Are you ever going to learn? Didn’t you just post a picture of Fred Phelps protesting Reagan’s funeral as evidence of opposition from the left during the 1980s? Didn’t you claim that history showed that when a single party has controlled the Presidency and Congress, the federal debt rose out of control? Didn’t you even suggest that Diogenes was crazy for pointing at the 1984 debate with Mondale as indicative of Reagan’s cognitive decline? Should we revisit your claim that the two Bushes stand out as having increased NASA funding the most? My point stands. Your posts must always be fact checked because you’re a lying little weasel. Here, the only thing you were right about was the quoted number of estates versus just farms affected. Good work! ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/215 "2010-02-14T03:08:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The part you quoted doesn’t contradict anything I said. It does measure the potential impact of those figures at $1.5 million, $2 million and $3.5 million. (as I said upthread), and it says those figures would all substantially REDUCE the number of affected estates. I’m just not following you. The table says at a $1.5M exemption level, 740 estates don’t have sufficient liquid assets to pay the taxes. Sam said this, in assessing it: > [@](#): > > Do you think the CBO can do better than that? Because that document says that if the estate tax was 1.5 million dollars, then in 2000, of 33,605 estates that filed in that value range, 13,771 would have owed estate taxes, and of those, 740 would not have enough liquid assets to pay the tax. This was at a tax rate of 43%. That’s right from the report. I don’t know how anyone could take issue with it or call it made-up. That’s what the report says. He added: > [@](#): > > So, we can guess that lowering the ceiling to 1 million from 1.5, and increasing the tax rate from 43% to 55%, would significantly increase the number of estates that would not be able to pay the tax out of liquid assets. …which seems mathematically indisputable. It simply says, as an issue of fact, that 740 estates at the $1.5M level would have insufficient liquid assets, and that’s what Sam cited. > [@](#): > > Farms is all that matters, since that’s all we were talking about. That may have been what some wanted to discuss, but that’s not what Sam started the exchange with, nor did he steer it there, ISTM. The exchange started when he posed a question about small businesses, and then DanBlather jumped all over him, chiding him over bringing up widows and family farms when Sam never mentioned either. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/216 "2010-02-14T03:11:05Z")
Sam quoted a post where he was specifically challenged to find a cite for widows having to sell farms to pay Estate Taxes, and then trumphantly presented the CBO link as a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/217 "2010-02-14T03:19:58Z")
I think that misrepresents the exchange. He was “challenged” to support something he never asserted, if that’s how you’re reading DanBlather’s post. His response was completely consistent with the point he raised in his first question, the one DanBlather challenged him to support (with a non sequitur mentioning widows and farms). Sam’s point was not about farms. Again, DanBlather was the one who brought up farms, for whatever reason, in response to Sam’s post which never mentioned them. DanBlather made a snotty post challenging Sam to support his hypothesis with research, which Sam did. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/218 "2010-02-14T03:38:43Z")
> [@culture](#): > > Am I close? nope. An education major? I sound liberal artsey? Oh, God, the shame… 🙂 > [@](#): > > You are one angry person. I’m actually quite cheery and easy going. I just don’t tolerate bullshit from people who have harmed my country. When these conservatives have paid for their damage, they can come sniffing around for fresh new goodies, and not one day before. As a libertarian, surely you agree that they should pay for their excesses. I’m willing to argue whether they deserve any _new_ goodies with you at a later date. Right now, I’d like to see a jobs bill passed that’ll prevent us from becoming a has-been on the global stage. W damaged us badly, and this is _not_ the time to fuck around with petty tax cuts for anyone. There is _real_ work to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/219 "2010-02-14T03:59:25Z")
You’re doing it again, Hentor… You want to be careful here. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Didn’t you just post a picture of Fred Phelps protesting Reagan’s funeral as evidence of opposition from the left during the 1980s? An honest mistake which I owned up to immediately, and which didn’t actually change my point at all. > [@](#): > > Didn’t you claim that history showed that when a single party has controlled the Presidency and Congress, the federal debt rose out of control? No. Do I get to start calling you a liar yet? I said that the only time in recent history where there was a _sustained_ reduction in the size of government as a percentage of GDP was when Congress was controlled by Republicans and the White House by a Democrat. I even went out of my way to be fair and admit that it was a sample size of one and not necessarily proof. > [@](#): > > Didn’t you even suggest that Diogenes was crazy for pointing at the 1984 debate with Mondale as indicative of Reagan’s cognitive decline? Uh, yeah. And I backed it up with numerous cites from doctors who investigated these claims and said categorically that Reagan showed no clinical signs of Alzheimers when he left the Presidency - four years later. And I also cited the fact that Reagan wasn’t diagnosed with Alzheimers until 1994 - a DECADE after Diogenes said he had it. The fact that you’re trying to spin this as a sign of my mendacity is beyond bewildering. I was right, Dio was wrong, and I proved it. > [@](#): > > Should we revisit your claim that the two Bushes stand out as having increased NASA funding the most? Oh, lets! We’ve never done that one before. Ready to get spanked again? > [@](#): > > My point stands. Your posts must always be fact checked because you’re a lying little weasel. No, they must be ‘fact-checked’ because you can’t stand the fact that you don’t know what you’re talking about most of the time. > [@](#): > > Here, the only thing you were right about was the quoted number of estates versus just farms affected. Good work! And every other single thing I said. Or would you like to jump on this particular bandwagon and point out any other errors I made? It’s like you can’t even read. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/220 "2010-02-14T04:11:27Z")
No matter what Reagan’s doctors said, you can’t get around the fact that he visibly showed signs of his mental decline during that 1984 debate. You can’t just pretend that debate didn’t happen, and you can’t say it was unreasonable to infer that a decline was going on. Everybody in the fucking country noticed that he didn’t have all his marbles in that debate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694.md?page=12)