# Fuck Harry Reid! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694 "2010-02-12T12:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/41 "2010-02-12T15:51:27Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Yes, it is earned income. And it has already been taxed as it was earned by the person doing the bequeathing. An inheritance tax is nothing but a double-dip by the government and should be eliminated entirely. No, it’s unearned income.It’s not a tax on the stiff, it’s a tax on the parasite inheriting it. This atempt to paint inheritance taxes as “double-dipping” is acute, but specious. By that logic, any tax on any income at all is “double-dipping,” since all money has already been taxed somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/42 "2010-02-12T15:51:57Z")
> [@gravitycrash](#): > > I’ll admit that I don’t know what constitutes an estate but if it includes all assets then I could easily be taxed as rich when I retire in 20 or so years…hahaha, what a fucking joke. Estate taxes apply when you are dead, not when you retire. Again, you guys are simply clueless. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/43 "2010-02-12T15:52:17Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Yes, it is earned income. And it has already been taxed as it was earned by the person doing the bequeathing. An inheritance tax is nothing but a double-dip by the government and should be eliminated entirely. I’m not a big fan of most of the conservative agenda, and I disagree with you about 90 percent of the time. But I’m with you on this one for the exact reason that you mentioned. It’s really just the principle of the thing. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/44 "2010-02-12T15:52:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What we had under Eisenhower would work for me. That’s all you’re going to get. I’m not going to get into a picayune pissing contest over precise graduations. But that’s the crux of it, isn’t it? This “fair share” nonsense is thrown around constantly. I’d like you—or anyone—to define it and explain the “fairness of it”? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Let me put it this way. I’m pretty much a socialist. Going back to Eisenhower would be a compromise for me. I think there should be a cap on personal wealth altogether. So, that means that the number you like is 91% for the highest bracket. Okay, now please answer the other questions using that number. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/45 "2010-02-12T15:54:04Z")
> [@gravitycrash](#): > > Let’s see, before we get to the estate tax we have sales tax, state and federal income tax, property tax (my personal favorite), capital gains tax and I’m sure that I’m missing a few along the way. > I’ll admit that I don’t know what constitutes an estate but if it includes all assets then I could easily be taxed as rich when I retire in 20 or so years…hahaha, what a fucking joke. Your estate does not get taxed when you retire, but when you die. It’s a tax on the heirs to an estate, not on those who leave them. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/46 "2010-02-12T16:06:30Z")
Is **Magellan01** one of these retards that works at the Gap, but thinks he too, will someday make it into the big time, and his hard work and dedication will be punished by super high taxes on the most successful segment of society? The _real_ rich people are people who inherited their wealth, except for a literal handful of self-made folks who manage to start a very successful business or win the lottery (about the same odds). I’m sure it would be fun to be a trust fund baby and pass on millions of dollars in your estate (which is dumb, since no one who isn’t a fucking retard pays estate tax anyway, something you would know if you weren’t an uneducated shill for a bunch of society brats), but at some point you need to wake up and realize that if you were ever going to be that rich you wouldn’t be arguing on the internet. Lemme put it this way: You have three ways to make a big salary without relying on complete luck: lawyer, doctor, investment banker. You’ll have to be damn good and damn lucky to get one of those jobs. And when you do, you will still be in near poverty compared to someone who gets a few million a year from trust funds and the stock portfolio they inherited, or from a cushy job that they got through family connections. Same thing goes with capital gains tax – it’s a patent sop to the wealthiest .1% in this country. So you have 2k in Google shares? ZOMG! Your tax revenue aside, the capital gains tax is a huge gift to the people who need it least. It doesn’t “encourage them to invest”, that’s just a phrase they use because “Duh, those are our buddies in congress and we don’t like paying taxes” makes it a little more obvious that they are playing the republican poors for patsies. I mean, I know about taxes, and I know about tax revenue, and I even know about the demographics of taxpayers. I’ve spent a lot of time dealing with taxes, their effects, who pays them, the legalities of taxes, etc, etc. There’s nothing more annoying than these unwitting mouthpieces for big business/rich people who _actually didn’t work for it and don’t give a shit anyway_ and who know nothing about taxation but what they heard third hand from Rush Limbaugh or that stupid fucker that wants us to use gold doubloons. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/47 "2010-02-12T16:15:55Z")
Incidentally, these figures like “55%” are not applied to the entire estate. I think there are some misunderstandings going on here. A certain amount of the estate is exempt altogether. In 2009, the first $3.5 million was exempt with a 45% tax on everything after that. In 2010, there will be a one year repeal of the Estate tax (under the 2001 Tax act). In 2011, the exemption will be $1 million with a 55% tax on everything _over_ that first million. If you leave a $1.5M estate in 2011, your heirs will not pay a tax of 55% on the whole $1.5M, but will get the first million free and pay 55% of $500K. There is a current Senate Resolution to raise the exemption to $5M, with a maximum tax of 35% on everything after that. People who leave million dollar estates are not this year, not next year, and not in the forseeable future going to have their heirs see half that money go to the government. Let’s get that straight. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/48 "2010-02-12T16:17:00Z")
I do so love hearing the _exact same people_ lecturing the poor about how they need to work harder and be smarter so they can make a decent living, while simultaneously claiming their own children are exempt from having to be productive and build their own characters because they somehow deserve all that cash Daddy and Mommy are going to leave them. The irony just burns … except for those wearing asbestos-lined reality shields. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/49 "2010-02-12T16:17:57Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Same thing goes with capital gains tax – it’s a patent sop to the wealthiest .1% in this country. So you have 2k in Google shares? ZOMG! Your tax revenue aside, the capital gains tax is a huge gift to the people who need it least. It doesn’t “encourage them to invest”, that’s just a phrase they use because “Duh, those are our buddies in congress and we don’t like paying taxes” makes it a little more obvious that they are playing the republican poors for patsies. Preach it. Fpr some reason you don’t hear the conservatives talking about fairness when someone earning a middle class wage pays HIGHER taxes on his earning than someone who gets their income from capital gains. Higher; you work hard and pull home a nice $75,000 which is almost enough to buy a house and think about putting your kids in college. The guy up the street in that big house, who is making his money off buying and selling stocks and property pays a smaller percentage on his capital gains then you do on your salary. The number of people paying higher marginal rates on their salary than others do on capital gains is literally several orders of magnitude more than those affected by the estate tax. But what do conservatives choose to be outraged about? The problem is that there are no Madison Street public relations companies watering the Astroturf for the middle class. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/50 "2010-02-12T16:20:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > II think there are some misunderstandings going on here. You are too kind, it’s willful stupidity. If only we could tax that! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/51 "2010-02-12T16:20:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sorry, I mistook you for someone who had something to contribute. My mistake. Sez the guy who thinks it’s cool to pre-emptively yell ‘FIRE’ in a crowded theatre, just because there _might_ be a fire. You folk didn’t do diligence on Iraq, you did _hysteria_. And now you don’t want to pay for your war, and bitch about not getting _more_ money from the Feds. Conservatives like that are nothing but a plague on the body politic. You all need to start taking some responsibility, rather than pretend _once again_ that the past is the past, and every day in congress happens to be Republican Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/52 "2010-02-12T16:24:32Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Yes, it is earned income. And it has already been taxed as it was earned by the person doing the bequeathing. An inheritance tax is nothing but a double-dip by the government and should be eliminated entirely. I hear this same stupid bullshit all the time. I find $100 on the ground and use it to pay for an amazing haircut. The stylist is taxed on that income. The stylist uses it to pay his landscaping company. The landscaping company is taxed on that income. The landscaping company uses it to pay their worker. The worker is taxed on that income. The worker uses it to rent a pony for his daughter’s birthday. The Pony’s owner is taxed on that income. The Pony owner stuffs the bill into a savings account. He dies. His son get’s it. The son is taxed on that income. Income is taxed. _Welcome to Earth!_ Jesus merciful fuck, people, this isn’t rocket surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/53 "2010-02-12T16:25:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree. As it will increase the odds of winning for every Republican running in November. > > :rolleyes: This “fair share” nonsense it peddled around here incessantly. Can you please tell me what you think this “fair share” is? Just how much more should the government go into the pocket of someone making $200,000 than someone making $40,000? How many more days out of a year should the person who makes more earn money have to work on the government’s behalf? And just how is that “fair”? You should look up _progressive tax_ and make sure you understand it before you mouth off any more. Kay? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/54 "2010-02-12T16:29:11Z")
**magellan01** , do you or do you not observe a distinction between earned and unearned income? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/55 "2010-02-12T16:30:32Z")
Paris Hilton worked hard to be born rich. How can you deny her ? It is good to be a king. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/56 "2010-02-12T16:40:37Z")
Back to the OP: while I am pissed that after agreeing to a bill that both sides like that (first time that’s happened, I think), Reid dumps it because of too much pork and special interest crap. Good for him for trying to keep things clean. However, why wasn’t this done for the bills proposed by the Dems? The stimulus, cap-and-trade and health care bills were bloated with special favors to lobbyists or downright bribes to the congress critters in order to get them on board. Where was the outrage on Reid’s part then and the desire to keep things simple and above board? As for the current hijack, I am not and never will be ☹ , in the upper income realm. I have had to fight and scrap for what I have. Everyone I know who has achieved the upper income levels being targeted reached that point through hard work. No government handouts, no special privileges, no gimmes. And none of them were handed anything, either. They either started their own businesses that have succeeded, got into a career with a high salary (I know a few medical specialists, lawyers and stock brokers) or made some very good investments. Why should they be punished for succeeding? While they are alive they are taking care of their families. When they die they want to make sure that their families continue to live in the way they were used to without the continued source of their salary. Is life insurance supposed to make up for the difference? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/57 "2010-02-12T16:42:20Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Is **Magellan01** one of these retards that works at the Gap, but thinks he too, will someday make it into the big time, and his hard work and dedication will be punished by super high taxes on the most successful segment of society? > > The _real_ rich people are people who inherited their wealth, except for a literal handful of self-made folks who manage to start a very successful business or win the lottery (about the same odds). I’m sure it would be fun to be a trust fund baby and pass on millions of dollars in your estate (which is dumb, since no one who isn’t a fucking retard pays estate tax anyway, something you would know if you weren’t an uneducated shill for a bunch of society brats), but at some point you need to wake up and realize that if you were ever going to be that rich you wouldn’t be arguing on the internet. > > Lemme put it this way: You have three ways to make a big salary without relying on complete luck: lawyer, doctor, investment banker. You’ll have to be damn good and damn lucky to get one of those jobs. And when you do, you will still be in near poverty compared to someone who gets a few million a year from trust funds and the stock portfolio they inherited, or from a cushy job that they got through family connections. > > Same thing goes with capital gains tax – it’s a patent sop to the wealthiest .1% in this country. So you have 2k in Google shares? ZOMG! Your tax revenue aside, the capital gains tax is a huge gift to the people who need it least. It doesn’t “encourage them to invest”, that’s just a phrase they use because “Duh, those are our buddies in congress and we don’t like paying taxes” makes it a little more obvious that they are playing the republican poors for patsies. > > I mean, I know about taxes, and I know about tax revenue, and I even know about the demographics of taxpayers. I’ve spent a lot of time dealing with taxes, their effects, who pays them, the legalities of taxes, etc, etc. There’s nothing more annoying than these unwitting mouthpieces for big business/rich people who _actually didn’t work for it and don’t give a shit anyway_ and who know nothing about taxation but what they heard third hand from Rush Limbaugh or that stupid fucker that wants us to use gold doubloons. Wow, first a socialist shows up and now a shithead! (Not that the two are necesarily exclusive.) Hey, shithead, I am not against an estate tax in concept. And I’m perfectly aware of how they work. I think that as much right as a person might have to an inheritance, it is not a strong a claim to the the money he earns from the sweat of his own brow. So, I am fine with an estate tax, I just think the 1 million number is woefully low in today’s world. Of course, I never state otherwise and you just jump to your asinine conclusions. Not that I blame you, that’s what shitheads do. Now, shithead, might you care to answer the questions I’ve posed to Dio and anyone else who thinks they can spell it out for a poor widdle Gap employee? (You forgot “living in his parents basement”.) ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/58 "2010-02-12T16:42:31Z")
We really should stop with the class warfare stuff. We don’t have estate tax because rich people suck, we do it for several other reasons: 1. We need to address how capital gains are addressed when the assets are passed on, 2. We need to raise money to pay for stuff, 3. We don’t want to have a permanent, landed gentry like there was in Europe. The Founding Fathers held this position as well. So yes, we can eliminate the estate tax and then either raise middle income taxes now, or deficit spend and pass it on to your children (how’s THAT for an inheritance). ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/59 "2010-02-12T16:43:30Z")
What’s the point of arguing whats “fair”. Its not like fair in this context has some right answer, like it’s a math equation or something. Fair to one person is not fair to another. I can honestly see both sides of the inheritance debate seeing it as fair to tax and unfair to tax. But in my mind whether a tax is fair or not is less important than the fact that an inheritance tax is one of the least intrusive on the economy ways of the government collecting money. And even if it is unfair, if it were to be given a scale, it is not egregiously unfair because the person who is being “screwed” is either dead or getting essentially a windfall. Unfair, maybe, but not particularly eregious in its fairness and not particularly upsetting to the economic apple cart. The thing is any tax you don’t collect needs to be collected somewhere else or you don’t spend as much. Given te sepndthrift ways of the Republicans the previous eight years, I hardly think they can talk about spending money as the problem. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694/60 "2010-02-12T16:45:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I just think the 1 million number is woefully low in today’s world. So I am sure that several years ago, when the current timetable on estate taxes was put in place, you loudly voiced your opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-harry-reid/528694.md?page=4)