# Fuck Hillary Clinton! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 5, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424 "2019-12-05T20:23:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/141 "2019-12-09T23:06:59Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > He has been kind of a wake-up call to the country. Tough love therapy. We will have a lot of cleanup to do, though. David Chappelle compares him to the death of Emmett Till. It’s forcing us to take a good look at who we are. His presidency is moving the needle. It’s making the racists bold but its also making the rest of us bold too. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/142 "2019-12-10T01:24:18Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Because that was how she was fucking acting. We _owed_ to her. She believed that it was her turn and she did not have to bust her ass to get there, like everyone else in history. I mean, look how the Party capitulated and handed her the nomination. The rest of the country was supposed to see the oil on her forehead and accept her. All she had to do was step over a troublesome dirt clod. This. I don’t hate Hill-dawg… I just don’t particularly like her. Donna Brazil admitted that the DNC didn’t give the Bernster a fair shake. It’s sad but I feel most of the hate for Sand-man is manufactured. I mean… Medicare For Those Who Want It is silly to me. Maybe it’s because I’m poor, but I see other countries implementing Medicare For All and they’re fine. I feel like… ‘Those who want it’ will leave people - poor/mentally handicap people - in the dark because… they don’t know where their Social Security Card is. I don’t think if Bernie becomes president that he’ll just be able to enact anything he wants. So… And Joe Biden, on the environment alone… Is like… Out to lunch. His ways are too old. People are sick of these privileged elites helping their friends. That’s just my POV. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/143 "2019-12-10T01:46:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you have no problem with the vast majority of states being totally ignored? Can you explain your argument again? That seems to directly refute your prior argument. > > Right now, with the EC, candidates only visit swing states. Tens of millions of voters are ignored, and their votes basically don’t matter. I propose an imperfect scheme in which candidates will still spend most of their time visiting a limited number of places (just like now!), but every voter’s influence will be _exactly the same_ as every other voter. A voter in CA will have the exact same chance to influence the vote as a voter in IA, NH, TX, or FL. Why, exactly, is the former scheme superior, in your opinion? Perhaps Asimov was on to something [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_(short_story)). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/144 "2019-12-10T03:59:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This doesn’t refute anything I said. You said “it wasn’t three states”, when that is a factually false statement – Hillary lost the election by just 3 states. That wasn’t the conversation. I said she won CAlifornia by 5 million votes and lost a crapload of states by a handful of votes. Eschereal said (paraphrase) nuh uh she only lost 3 states by a handful of votes, she lost the others by more than what i deem to be a handful of votes. So there. I do not disagree that she could have won with a majority of the electoral votes. So maybe your comment wasn’t stupid, you simply misunderstaood the conversation that was going on. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/145 "2019-12-10T05:31:14Z")
Ms. Clinton **won** 13 states + DC (+ 1 District in ME) for a total of 171 EVs. The other guy **won** 23 states (+ 1 Distict in ME and 2 in NE) for a total of 190 EVs. The remaining 15 states and 1 District (177 EVs) were not awarded to a candidate who was able to command a majority (\>50%) of their vote (the lowest figure being the EVs of Utah awarded for 45.5% of the vote). It seems like something is not quite right with that method. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/146 "2019-12-10T16:40:58Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Ms. Clinton **won** 13 states + DC (+ 1 District in ME) for a total of 171 EVs. The other guy **won** 23 states (+ 1 Distict in ME and 2 in NE) for a total of 190 EVs. The remaining 15 states and 1 District (177 EVs) were not awarded to a candidate who was able to command a majority (\>50%) of their vote (the lowest figure being the EVs of Utah awarded for 45.5% of the vote). It seems like something is not quite right with that method. What’s not quite right other than the results? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/147 "2019-12-10T19:48:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What’s not quite right other than the results? In Arizona, 51.3% of the voters chose someone other than the winner In Colorado, 51.8% chose someone else In Florida, 51% chose someone else In Maine, 52.1% chose someone else In Michigan, 52.5% chose someone else In Nevada 52.1% chose someone else In New Hampshire, 53.2% chose someone else In New Mexico, 51.7% chose someone else In North Carolina, 50.1% chose someone else In Pennsylvania, 51.8% chose someone else In Utah, 54.5% chose someone else In Virginia, 50.3% chose someone else And in Wisconsin, 52.8% chose someone else Overall, in the popular vote, 51.8% chose not the highest vote-getter, and 53.9% chose not the winner. If you think that is not a deeply defective system that needs some manner of major repair, I think there must be something defective in your thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/148 "2019-12-10T23:07:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > In Arizona, 51.3% of the voters chose someone other than the winner > In Colorado, 51.8% chose someone else > In Florida, 51% chose someone else > In Maine, 52.1% chose someone else > In Michigan, 52.5% chose someone else > In Nevada 52.1% chose someone else > In New Hampshire, 53.2% chose someone else > In New Mexico, 51.7% chose someone else > In North Carolina, 50.1% chose someone else > In Pennsylvania, 51.8% chose someone else > In Utah, 54.5% chose someone else > In Virginia, 50.3% chose someone else > And in Wisconsin, 52.8% chose someone else > > Overall, in the popular vote, 51.8% chose not the highest vote-getter, and 53.9% chose not the winner. > > If you think that is not a deeply defective system that needs some manner of major repair, I think there must be something defective in your thinking. Umm Virginia didn’t go to Trump. Hillary won in Virginia. And she got those electoral votes even though 50.27% of Virginian voters voted for someone other than Hillary. In fact: In Minnesota 53.56% of voters didn’t choose Hillary In New Hampshire 53.02% of the voters didn’t choose Hillary In Nevada 52.5% of voters didn’t choose Hillary In Maine 52.17% of voters didn’t choose Hillary In Colorado 51.84% of voters didn’t choose Hillary In New Mexico 51.74% of voters didn’t choose Hillary and as mentioned above, in Virginia, 50.27% of voters didn’t choose Hillary. In fact, nationwide 51.72% of the voters didn’t choose Hillary. Your argument is stupid. I’m not even sure why people make this argument other than butthurtedness. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/149 "2019-12-10T23:13:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Umm Virginia didn’t go to Trump. Hillary won in Virginia. And she got those electoral votes even though 50.27% of Virginian voters voted for someone other than Hillary. > > In fact: > In Minnesota 53.56% of voters didn’t choose Hillary > In New Hampshire 53.02% of the voters didn’t choose Hillary > In Nevada 52.5% of voters didn’t choose Hillary > In Maine 52.17% of voters didn’t choose Hillary > In Colorado 51.84% of voters didn’t choose Hillary > In New Mexico 51.74% of voters didn’t choose Hillary > and as mentioned above, in Virginia, 50.27% of voters didn’t choose Hillary. > > In fact, nationwide 51.72% of the voters didn’t choose Hillary. > > Your argument is stupid. I’m not even sure why people make this argument other than butthurtedness. Perhaps they’re arguing for some sort of [alternate voting system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting) where a candidate must get over 50% of the vote to win. Getting such a thing implemented in America is a doomed endeavor, of course - we prefer to stick with existing systems even if they suck. Nay, _especially_ if they suck. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/150 "2019-12-11T08:19:03Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Now see, that’s a reasonable assessment. Of course she made several material mistakes during the campaign that had a negative effect, but noting that there were other, more substantial factors involved is also key here. As opposed to, for example: > Anyone handwaving away the effect of the 25-year right-wing smear campaign against her, active Russian propaganda and hacking efforts, the effect of Comey’s last-minute announcement about the investigation and, last but certainly not least, the fact that a disturbing number of Americans admire Donald Trump for being an alpha asshole who gets away with the kind of shit they wish they could get away with, isn’t really interested in a realistic analysis of the last election and is just looking for an excuse to continue the aforementioned smear campaign. > > Yes, she made some significant mistakes as a candidate and isn’t a terribly likeable person but Trump is also a terrible person who was literally in the middle of a fraud court case during the campaign so why is it that Clinton bears the full weight of her loss and his victory? The minor Comey bump aside, I’d argue that the other three factors I mentioned had a lot more to do with the election result than her failure to schedule a few more election stops in Michigan. And it’s not “running around like a headless chicken” to point that out. > > But no, if it makes any of y’all happy to blame Hillary for everything, go right on lying about her. It’s not like we’re all not used to that sort of thing already. It’s very telling that one element of the “realistic analysis” is the Russia Did It conspiracy theory. [“In other calls with advisers and political surrogates in the days after the election, Hillary declined to take responsibility for her own loss. “She’s not being particularly self-reflective,” said one longtime ally who was on calls with her shortly after the election, Instead, Hillary kept pointing the finger at Comey and Russia. “She wants to make sure all these narratives get spun the right way,” this person said.” “Within 24 hours of her concession speech, [campaign chair John Podesta and manager Robby Mook] assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn’t entirely on the up-and-up. For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, **they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public**. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument.”]([Shattered: Inside Hillary Clinton's Doomed Campaign - Jonathan Allen, Amie Parnes - Google หนังสือ](https://books.google.co.th/books?id=QqvNDAAAQBAJ&pg=PT423&lpg=PT423#v=onepage&q&f=false)) Bolding mine, It’s propaganda from a sore loser who sees Russia everywhere, Trump is a Russian asset, Gabbard is a Russian asset, Sanders is a Russian asset, the chair she stubbed her toe against is a Russian asset. Normally one questions the mental health of people like that, not try to elevate them to the highest positions of power. The shame of losing to someone like Trump is such a loss of face that clinging on to a fantasy is preferable, or as Dore puts it here, [they’d rather start WWIII than admit of running a shitty campaign.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDacXkU9MLc) Unfortunately the propaganda sure hit the right buttons. Like those rats in experiments that have an electrode implanted in their pleasure centre wired to a lever, the rats will hit that lever until they literally die of exhaustion or starvation. More Russia, tell me more about Russia, oooh feels good, doesn’t it? Looking from the outside, seen you frantically pushing that lever, it doesn’t look good, I’ll tell you that. TPTB sure know it’s effective, and have been caught in the act: ["To justify its claim that Gabbard is the Kremlin’s candidate, NBC stated, “analysts at New Knowledge, the company the Senate Intelligence Committee used to track Russian activities in the 2016 election, told NBC News they’ve spotted ‘chatter’ related to Gabbard in anonymous online message boards, including those known for fomenting right-wing troll campaigns.” What NBC — amazingly — concealed is a fact that reveals its article to be a journalistic fraud: That same firm, **New Knowledge, was caught just six weeks ago engaging in a massive scam to create fictitious Russian troll accounts on Facebook and Twitter in order to claim that the Kremlin was working to defeat Democratic Senate nominee Doug Jones in Alabama**. The New York Times, when exposing the scam, quoted a New Knowledge report that boasted of its fabrications: “We orchestrated an elaborate ‘false flag’ operation that planted the idea that the [Roy] Moore campaign was amplified on social media by a Russian botnet.'”"]([NBC News, to Claim Russia Supports Tulsi Gabbard, Relies on Firm Caught Fabricating Russia Data for the Democratic Party](https://theintercept.com/2019/02/03/nbc-news-to-claim-russia-supports-tulsi-gabbard-relies-on-firm-just-caught-fabricating-russia-data-for-the-democratic-party/)) It’s disturbing, as all xenophobic rabble rousing for political gain has ever been. How hard would it be to come up with someone more appealing than Trump, of all the people in the US nobody could be put in that position except Hillary Clinton? The very embodiment of an entrenched, neo nobiliary caste who see itself as entitled to have power. Heck, at least with kings one doesn’t vote for them, but for people wilfully, happily,\* smugly\* to vote in the same types into power its something to behold. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/151 "2019-12-11T12:20:37Z")
You know who _also_ “saw Russia everywhere”? Multiple US intelligence agencies and the Mueller investigation. Substantially. So while I appreciate the cite from the completely reputable Intercept, your desperate attempt to pretend that Russian interference wasn’t real and material is noted. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/152 "2019-12-12T16:32:10Z")
Three years and it’s still the non-existent “popular vote” thing. Hillary dind’t win the popular vote, there is no such thing. It’s like, as has been said countless times. saying you won the world series even though you lost 3-4 because you had more runs. I’d love for her to run again and screw it up again. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/153 "2019-12-12T16:47:30Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Three years and it’s still the non-existent “popular vote” thing. Hillary dind’t win the popular vote, there is no such thing. It’s like, as has been said countless times. saying you won the world series even though you lost 3-4 because you had more runs. There _is_ a popular vote. It’s not directly relevant in the sense that it doesn’t result in the election of the President. However, it is extremely relevant when the conversation is about the popular appeal of the candidate. In that instance, actual vote totals are the best metric of how much overall popular appeal a candidate has, even if it is unevenly geographically distributed. So we get conversations like this: Person A: “Candidate X lost because people didn’t like her.” Person B: “But Candidate X got more votes than Candidate Y by a wide margin, so clearly a majority of voters did like Candidate X.” Person A: “But the popular vote doesn’t elect the President, therefore I’m right and you’re stupid!” …which, as you prefer sporting analogies, are like Person A saying that Person B can’t kick a field goal and then, as Person B is kicking, Person A moves the goalposts. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/154 "2019-12-12T16:49:23Z")
So, those people don’t exist? How about the three to five million “illegal votes” she got (according to Il Douche), do they exist? If the popular vote doesn’t really matter, howcum he lies about it? Habit, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/155 "2019-12-12T16:50:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > There _is_ a popular vote. It’s not directly relevant in the sense that it doesn’t result in the election of the President. However, it is extremely relevant when the conversation is about the popular appeal of the candidate. In that instance, actual vote totals are the best metric of how much overall popular appeal a candidate has, even if it is unevenly geographically distributed. And the fact that the iDJiT currently in charge didn’t win the popular vote pisses him off. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/156 "2019-12-12T17:18:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > There _is_ a popular vote. It’s not directly relevant in the sense that it doesn’t result in the election of the President. However, it is extremely relevant when the conversation is about the popular appeal of the candidate. In that instance, actual vote totals are the best metric of how much overall popular appeal a candidate has, even if it is unevenly geographically distributed. > > So we get conversations like this: > > Person A: “Candidate X lost because people didn’t like her.” > > Person B: “But Candidate X got more votes than Candidate Y by a wide margin, so clearly a majority of voters did like Candidate X.” > > Person A: “But the popular vote doesn’t elect the President, therefore I’m right and you’re stupid!” > > …which, as you prefer sporting analogies, are like Person A saying that Person B can’t kick a field goal and then, as Person B is kicking, Person A moves the goalposts. If you think the popular vote exists more than “more touchdowns” or “fewer striekouts”, you’re wrong. Also, the system’s a couple of centuries old so it wasn’t quite a surprise how it works. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/157 "2019-12-12T17:33:05Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > If you think the popular vote exists more than “more touchdowns” or “fewer striekouts”, you’re wrong. Also, the system’s a couple of centuries old so it wasn’t quite a surprise how it works. Your deliberate evasion of the point is duly noted. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/158 "2019-12-12T18:26:00Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > … it works. We have some recent evidence that, overall, it does not. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/159 "2019-12-12T20:59:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > We have some recent evidence that, overall, it does not. It should be overhauled, or scrapped. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424/160 "2019-12-13T15:56:01Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Perhaps they’re arguing for some sort of [alternate voting system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting) where a candidate must get over 50% of the vote to win. > > Getting such a thing implemented in America is a doomed endeavor, of course - we prefer to stick with existing systems even if they suck. Nay, _especially_ if they suck. I personally love that system but it is a little confusing and complicated. Every state has control over their own election process. Noone in power sees any value in adding that complexity especially since it diverts from the two party system. It mostly allows you to voice dissent as you vote for one of the two parties. Under your system, I am much more likely to vote for some single issue candidate that has no chance of winning and then have the Democrat as my second choice in the event the election is close. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hillary-clinton/844424.md?page=7)